Small 20 cal project

[chuckshooter]

I have always thought a 20 ackley bee or killer bee would be a lot of fun! I have a 17 AB and it’s a great round and efficient as all get out! However the brass situation is terrible! I’m not usually disparaged by component selection when it comes to cartridge selection but this one is different. The brass is extremely hard to come by and not very durable after the forming process. Maybe the 20 would be better but I loose quite a few to split necks after Fireforming. Anyway I do like the ackley bee just wish brass was better

I have 3 killer bee's, 1 uses winchester 218 bee brass, 1 uses 25-20 brass and the last one uses starline 32-20 brass. The starline brass is holding up great, it ends up a little short but, works just fine.

 

[chuckshooter]

These sound interesting. What's wrong with these? How is the barrel life?
Just trying to learn something as I follow your thread.

Barrels on these will out live me,

 

[Dstaffk5]

By the way I always wanted to build a 38 or 357 bumble bee and now I'm too old... don't be like me... John

Maybe a 20 cal on a 327 Federal case...

 

[Ledd Slinger]

And I think you are completely misunderstanding my post. I already have 2 20 practicals. I already have 2 204 Rugers. I also have a 20 br and will also be building a 20ppc. I want something smaller, that uses less powder, that is 20 caliber, has excellent barrel life, and is different than what I already have. The ground squirrels are very small and if a 17 hmr tears them up, then a 20 mink, squirrel, tcm, or similar will do even more.

Gotcha. I'm just saying I think building a smaller 20 cal is a waste of time if it's intended for ground squirrels. We usually take 3 or 4 rifles each when we go so we can switch guns when barrels start getting hot. That's the best way to save barrel life on a ground squirrel trip because there is usually a ton of shooting involved. There's no question that the smaller 20 cals will tear up a ground squirrel, I've shot them many times with 20 K Hornet and 20 VarTarg. It's when the wind is blowing and your best shooting position puts you 300 or more yards away from those tiny little animals that a person really starts to hate the small cartridges. At 300 yards with a 15-20 mph crosswind using my 204 Ruger, I have to hold about 2 or so inches depending on the gusts. My 6mm's need less. With a 20 K Hornet, I wouldn't even attempt a shot because it's just a waste of ammo that leaves the squirrels laughing at me.

On calm days, I actually love shooting them with my bolt action 22LR BR rifle. Fun to see how far I can hit them out there. But on windy days it gets put away.

If you build something small, at least be sure to take a couple bigger 20s with for you and your boy. Don't want to travel for a trip and get caught being undergunned if the conditions render a smaller round useless. I shot my antelope 2 years ago with a 220gr Berger going 3180 fps in a 300 Norma Mag Improved. Didnt use that big rifle because one of my 6mm or 6.5mm rifles wouldn't kill an antelope at long range, I have killed many antelope with smaller calibers. I did it because of the wind! That big fast bullet from the 300 NMI bucks the wind WAY better! Which makes me more accurate and therfor extends my effective shooting range

 

[searcher]

Have 3. Want something I can reload

Sounds like a .17 Hornet would fit the bill better than a .20 inside 200 yards. That is what I step down to from my .20 Practical. Uses only about 11 grains of powder and very accurate. Almost no recoil. Blows those little critters up quite well.

 

[chuckshooter]

Fisrt rule of shooting small critters, it's always going to be windy, small cartridge, small bullet , so what, just make the wind correction and pull the trigger. Otherwise where do you stop in a persons goal to "shoot in the wind" a 105 holitzer. Bigger cartridge equals more heat, more recoil, more noise, more barrel wear. More wear and tear on me. I sometimes shoot 6 to 700 rounds a day at prairie dogs or squirrels. If a person does that with a 6mm Ai , the barrel is shot out in two days. I am all for variety. But after 35 years of shooting colony varmints "less is better" heak, many of my trips, i take only .20 cal guns . Don't need or shoot something bigger. Of course i was joking about the wind. Every so often, it's not windy. This is not like shooting f-class, bench rest or big game hunting. No way, no how. Just my opinion.

 

[rickiesrevenge]

I have a 17 TCM Improved. Its fun. A 20 would be cool too! Pretty similar case capacity as my 17AH's. But works better in the XP-100 actions I'm using. Not sure about brass these days. Last time I looked it was all nickle plated.

 

[Dstaffk5]

I have a 17 TCM Improved. Its fun. A 20 would be cool too! Pretty similar case capacity as my 17AH's. But works better in the XP-100 actions I'm using. Not sure about brass these days. Last time I looked it was all nickle plated.

I have quite a bit of brass 22 tcm

 

[pwdrbrn]

Maybe get over to Saubier.com, check with Ray H, ,he and Charlie were messing with the tcm a couple of years ago. good luck.

 

[Jordandavelaar]

You could look into the 20 SCC. I believe that would fit you criteria of around 10 grains of powder. I don’t remember what case it is based off of off the top of my head. Plus if bonding time is what you want with your son forming brass in the reloading room and fireforming and getting a good accurate load worked up then something like this caliber is the ticket. If you can’t find anything on here or saubier.com. Go check out 204ruger.com. There was some information on there about this caliber.

 

[L.Sherm]

You could look into the 20 SCC. I believe that would fit you criteria of around 10 grains of powder.

The 20SCC is a 20VTAI. It takes about 21.5 of AA2200.
The parent case is a 221 fireball

 

[Jordandavelaar]

The 20SCC is a 20VTAI. It takes about 21.5 of AA2200.
The parent case is a 221 fireball

you are correct after looking at my notes. Thank you for correcting this.

 

[L.Sherm]

you are correct after looking at my notes. Thank you for correcting this.

No biggie, ive got plenty of $hit wrong

 

[drewh]

So I have several like you are describing, I have the 20TCM, but borrowed the reamer. I also have a 20 Viper, a 20 Vartarg with a longer neck and a shortened body, also have a 20/30 carbine. All of these I am at various stages of playing with. My favorite one over the years was a 17 Killer bee, and used a combination of that and a 20 Vartarg for a lot of years. Sitting in my reamer box is also a 20/327 Fed reamer that I got by accident, it was supposed to be a 20 Garin reamer, wasn't noticed until the chamber was started. My suggestion is to pick your brass first. I wasn't all that impressed with 22 TCM brass, I ended up making my own out of both LC and Federal 300 BO - for my chamber the LC needed turned the 300 BO did not, ZEP machine makes a cutoff jig that works with a harbor freight cut off saw and makes versions of TCM pretty doable.