Are Ranks of Shooters Growing or Shrinking?

[urbanrifleman]

My fiance's sons have never once asked me about going shooting. The youngest spends most of his day in his room at the door shut playing first person video games where they do lots of shooting, but he has no interest in actually shooting anything as far as I can tell.

Aside from all the other obvious economic and cultural influences happening, just this shocking lack of interest in life that these young people have is probably the main factor. You really can't escape it even in a small town. People are doing a lot of sitting on their asses. The young people are very fat and mushy. Lot of them look like they never get out in the sun. They all have phones and they care about their phones more than anything. I would say that may be the main factor.

I've seen a major decline in the entire country since they introduced the iPhone smartphone. I would say absolutely that is the main factor that is affected the downfall of just about everything in this country. Basically, people worship their phones now. So they don't need to really go do anything else.

My friends asked me out to dinner for my birthday and by the end of every evening that we go out with them they have their phones out sitting on their phones. It's actually bizarre if anybody actually stopped and looked.

 

[bsekf]

Urbanrifleman you hit the nail with your head. No need for anybody to live on their phone. Wife and I were out to dinner at a pretty nice place. 30 something, well dressed, couple were seated near us. Both were on their phones, not talking but playing, and we never saw them speak to each other. Sad, have you tried to talk to a teenager lately.... they can't. Teachers say the big teen problem is the inability to communicate with their peers. When I was teaching trap technique to teens I would say "if I see one phone, it will be the next target". These people will have a problem living in the world I grew up in.

 

[urbanrifleman]

Urbanrifleman you hit the nail with your head. No need for anybody to live on their phone. Wife and I were out to dinner at a pretty nice place. 30 something, well dressed, couple were seated near us. Both were on their phones, not talking but playing, and we never saw them speak to each other. Sad, have you tried to talk to a teenager lately.... they can't. Teachers say the big teen problem is the inability to communicate with their peers. When I was teaching trap technique to teens I would say "if I see one phone, it will be the next target".

These parents today put no boundaries on their children.

And it shows.

I was having a conversation with someone where she was telling me about her friends that got a new puppy, and were having a very difficult time training it because usually they spend most of their weekends so high they can't hardly function. And that little puppy needs to go out to pee. But here in Oklahoma you can get all the weed you want and it's perfectly legal and they darn near give the stuff away. So I know grown adults, who, between their drinking, and their gummies, and smoking weed are semi comatose most of the time.

So, that probably cuts down on the interest in outside hobbies also haha

Imagine raising children and a person can't stay sober long enough to raise a puppy.

 

[ErikET]

Mental health worker, former game developer, still learning on the shooting front despite a lifetime of use, there are a lot of facets to it, none of them fun, nor easily addressed. I know a lot of people who work in tech were they don't even have a TV in the home, i also get where the whole free-range parenting movement is coming from (its not a good idea frankly) but its a natural and logical push-back, aggregated media is frankly about the worst thing for developing brains, it mimics how hard drug usage looks, as well as compulsive gambling, I could probably barf for volumes on the topic as its been my world for years.

People with kids have downright mad expenses, and I get why people toss the phones to them, a phone for 3 kids costs less than 1 month of bad daycare for 1 kid, more than a mortgage payment for most families, so off to auntie or grandma's they go with a phone or a tablet because daycare would end us financially, and sadly 5th grade right now is ballpark the nightmare age where a lot of kids can't point to any part of their conscious existence where a phone wasn't in their hand. There aren't simple solutions to any of this, its not the kid, its maybe every kid the kid knows thats in that at some point.

Kids don't "Like" the phone, they just feel like they have to as is standard in dopamine feedback loop mechanics (Think slot machine but with media), and I've heard thousands of variations of it in my career.

But yeah, daycare for 2 kids for 1 month cost us more than your typical PRS rifle. There again, aren't simple explanations or solutions for any of this.

To shooting, is there interest? Sure, in 30s, 40s, I notice a lot of what I might call the "Creative drive" in folks, some people need to tinker and experiment, and build stuff or smash stuff, or cook an elaborate meal, or feel the buzz of a crowd, we all need different things, there are absolutely a subset of folks who greatly enjoy the tactile, bordering on obsessive journey in marksmanship. Do I see a lot of "new" folks at clubs? Absolutely! I'm one of them. Is the club, welcoming? Love where I go, other places not so much (how can you really learn at a club where the RSO obsessively rips your bags apart because they are convinced every customer at every lane might MIGHT be sneaking in ammo they didn't sell you at crazy prices, and they have to take you for every last cent, some people see $$$ and no amount will ever be enough for them).

Some disciplines are also less friendly to newbies for sure, especially when you look at the (My knowledge is super limited to just the last 4 years) but some of the disciplines seem to be quite the arms race and some I'd frankly never consider because I feel downright priced out of even entering is (My presumption may be completely wrong, and I don't know what I don't know)

For anything to survive it needs new folks to be interested in it, so the journey is twofold, I wouldn't have stuck around despite an interest if folks weren't welcoming in my short journey, and absolutely there were places that despite extensive experience in other disciplines I felt like I had to jump through silly hoops to folks that seemed intent on putting their club out of business, and other places it felt amazing to just show up, and everyone is having a great time, people were super helpful, and encouraging.

We all learned from someone who took the time to try to teach us.

Anyway, always a risk putting yourself out there, cheers!

 

[urbanrifleman]

Urbanrifleman you hit the nail with your head. No need for anybody to live on their phone. Wife and I were out to dinner at a pretty nice place. 30 something, well dressed, couple were seated near us. Both were on their phones, not talking but playing, and we never saw them speak to each other. Sad, have you tried to talk to a teenager lately.... they can't. Teachers say the big teen problem is the inability to communicate with their peers. When I was teaching trap technique to teens I would say "if I see one phone, it will be the next target". These people will have a problem living in the world I grew up in.

When I was single and lonely I would go eat dinner all by myself and watch these young couples ignore each other. And I thought to myself "I'm sitting here alone wanting someone so bad and here are these people that have someone and they won't even talk over dinner". I'm not going to lie it made me kind of mad.

Well, I don't do that. I have no problem leaving my phone at home or leaving my phone in the car. And I've gotten to the point now where I'm starting to ask my friends to do it because I'm tired of sitting by myself while they're on their phone looking for a picture on Facebook that they want to show me from 2 years ago.

 

[Rsadams]

At my club we have more people joining but less actually shooting...

 

[Rsadams]

These parents today put no boundaries on their children.

And it shows.

I was having a conversation with someone where she was telling me about her friends that got a new puppy, and were having a very difficult time training it because usually they spend most of their weekends so high they can't hardly function. And that little puppy needs to go out to pee. But here in Oklahoma you can get all the weed you want and it's perfectly legal and they darn near give the stuff away. So I know grown adults, who, between their drinking, and their gummies, and smoking weed are semi comatose most of the time.

So, that probably cuts down on the interest in outside hobbies also haha

Imagine raising children and a person can't stay sober long enough to raise a puppy.

Exactly, the Xbox isn't a babysitter....

 

[urbanrifleman]

At my club we have more people joining but less actually shooting...

That is what we have here. Everybody signing up but as far as I can tell when I go shooting no one's ever there even less than I've ever seen before.

 

[urbanrifleman]

Exactly, the Xbox isn't a babysitter....

These kids are video addicted on a level that is quite shocking. It is truly like a drug. Aside from leaving the room to eat or to pee, which at this point we're happy that he doesn't crap his own pants because he doesn't want to get up.

He has recently discovered girls so I'm hoping that they'll be some kind of change. But from speaking to previous girlfriends that I had, the video addiction thing doesn't go away even after girls. Frankly, there are men that are so addicted to porn and video games they really don't give a crap about girls.

 

[Rsadams]

That is what we have here. Everybody signing up but as far as I can tell when I go shooting no one's ever there even less than I've ever seen before.

I think we figured out that about 10 percent actually use the range on the regular most of the employees if you can call them that shoot a few times a week and most are shotgun sports... Since buying a lab radar I am redoing all my reload data and entering it in a spreadsheet.... Since I have been going three to four days a week testing there's nobody out there and that's what makes that range great.... I have empty brass on my reloading table right now but unfortunately I think iam just getting over the latest strain of the china virus and it was rough....Today I would have normally gone and shot skeet but uhggg not now , hopefully a little reloading later today.... I haven't been off the couch in four days and because of it now my backs outa wack and iam stuck on a heating pad.... At least I can breath again...

 

[Rsadams]

These kids are video addicted on a level that is quite shocking. It is truly like a drug. Aside from leaving the room to eat or to pee, which at this point we're happy that he doesn't crap his own pants because he doesn't want to get up.

He has recently discovered girls so I'm hoping that they'll be some kind of change. But from speaking to previous girlfriends that I had, the video addiction thing doesn't go away even after girls. Frankly, there are men that are so addicted to porn and video games they really don't give a crap about girls.

Iam 55 and my wife and myself play games almost nightly with some other people.... It's just some other activities to do and get to talk to each other privately it keeps me out of the bars..lol... I enjoy watching movies and have always done both since video games were new BUT there's a limit because I also want to do other things... Especially shooting in real life which I have done for about 50 years and as long as I can I will continue...

But I have family members young family members that that's all they do is stare at screens... I tryed to get my nephew up and off Xbox one day by telling him I own most of those guns let's go shoot them for real... He went and had zero interest in it as a matter of fact he went right back into the house and got back on Xbox I was shocked because nobody ever did anything like that for me.... He was raised with the Xbox as a babysitter and it shows... They wonder why they can't get girlfriends.... Seriously he's so white you can almost see through him... He never goes outside... When I was a kid it was punishment to be inside in your room all day...

 

[Bottom Fodder]

Yep ask a teenager now if they would like to shoot F Class and they would probably ask you “What’s the name of the phone app.”

 

[DarkStar]

New blood can be hard to get. Easiest way for me to bring in new folks were my own kids. My oldest son is about to turn 16. I've had him shooting XTC Highpower Service Rifle since he was 12. Got him onto one of the state Junior teams at 13. Starting to dabble in Palma. He's pretty into shooting matches themselves, sometimes needs a "nudge." to practice.

He gets some ownership of shooting, not only by practice/matches, but I've also had him learn how to load his own ammo.

His little brother (10) has openly stated he wants to beat him once he's old enough to shoot. I've had that one on a BB gun for a little bit and now shooting a Cricket. 22 standing and supported prone.

I've used my kids to try and bring in other kids to shoot Highpower.

As far as the phone/electronics stuff goes, I made it a point to limit the snot out of screen time for my boys. My kids get a tablet and use of the computer for schoolwork and 30 minutes a day. They don't get a phone until they have a job and can pay for it. Plan, phone, everything. When my son got an Xbox (not from me) for Christmas, I limited his time to 30 minutes a day, so he could max out screen time at an hour. Recently, I made a deal with him. One minute of standing practice for one minute of Xbox. An X on the SCATT trainer or with the .22 upper nets two minutes of Xbox time. He's still on about 30 minutes a day, but I don’t have to nag him to go practice.

 

[6.5 forever]

New blood can be hard to get. Easiest way for me to bring in new folks were my own kids. My oldest son is about to turn 16. I've had him shooting XTC Highpower Service Rifle since he was 12. Got him onto one of the state Junior teams at 13. Starting to dabble in Palma. He's pretty into shooting matches themselves, sometimes needs a "nudge." to practice.

He gets some ownership of shooting, not only by practice/matches, but I've also had him learn how to load his own ammo.

His little brother (10) has openly stated he wants to beat him once he's old enough to shoot. I've had that one on a BB gun for a little bit and now shooting a Cricket. 22 standing and supported prone.

I've used my kids to try and bring in other kids to shoot Highpower.

As far as the phone/electronics stuff goes, I made it a point to limit the snot out of screen time for my boys. My kids get a tablet and use of the computer for schoolwork and 30 minutes a day. They don't get a phone until they have a job and can pay for it. Plan, phone, everything. When my son got an Xbox (not from me) for Christmas, I limited his time to 30 minutes a day, so he could max out screen time at an hour. Recently, I made a deal with him. One minute of standing practice for one minute of Xbox. An X on the SCATT trainer or with the .22 upper nets two minutes of Xbox time. He's still on about 30 minutes a day, but I don’t have to nag him to go practice.

Good job! Keep it up.

 

[Todd Earhart]

We have ourselves to blame for low match attendance. Selfishness. Most all of us have back up equipment and back up to back up. There is no way we couldn't find a young person that would love to come try a match but doesn't know how. The selfishness part is it is going to take time away from your match time to help them. Its worth the sacrifice.
Todd

 

[Wolfdog91]

Shooting emin general is growing. However what and how it is sint what most of the gun community like. My generation kinda does out own thing just because where really not interested in dealing with alot of the older guys for a host of reasons.
There's honestly a really big disconnect ( which honestly is self imposed I find most times )between shooting of my generation and older generations.
Just about everyone I've helped get into shooting is in the 18-28yr range and many will point blank say that their way more comfortable dealing with me then the average 50 something year old instructor. Especially the girls. Why ? Well I could get back into it but really boils down to social norms

 

[Wolfdog91]

Mental health worker, former game developer, still learning on the shooting front despite a lifetime of use, there are a lot of facets to it, none of them fun, nor easily addressed. I know a lot of people who work in tech were they don't even have a TV in the home, i also get where the whole free-range parenting movement is coming from (its not a good idea frankly) but its a natural and logical push-back, aggregated media is frankly about the worst thing for developing brains, it mimics how hard drug usage looks, as well as compulsive gambling, I could probably barf for volumes on the topic as its been my world for years.

People with kids have downright mad expenses, and I get why people toss the phones to them, a phone for 3 kids costs less than 1 month of bad daycare for 1 kid, more than a mortgage payment for most families, so off to auntie or grandma's they go with a phone or a tablet because daycare would end us financially, and sadly 5th grade right now is ballpark the nightmare age where a lot of kids can't point to any part of their conscious existence where a phone wasn't in their hand. There aren't simple solutions to any of this, its not the kid, its maybe every kid the kid knows thats in that at some point.

Kids don't "Like" the phone, they just feel like they have to as is standard in dopamine feedback loop mechanics (Think slot machine but with media), and I've heard thousands of variations of it in my career.

But yeah, daycare for 2 kids for 1 month cost us more than your typical PRS rifle. There again, aren't simple explanations or solutions for any of this.

To shooting, is there interest? Sure, in 30s, 40s, I notice a lot of what I might call the "Creative drive" in folks, some people need to tinker and experiment, and build stuff or smash stuff, or cook an elaborate meal, or feel the buzz of a crowd, we all need different things, there are absolutely a subset of folks who greatly enjoy the tactile, bordering on obsessive journey in marksmanship. Do I see a lot of "new" folks at clubs? Absolutely! I'm one of them. Is the club, welcoming? Love where I go, other places not so much (how can you really learn at a club where the RSO obsessively rips your bags apart because they are convinced every customer at every lane might MIGHT be sneaking in ammo they didn't sell you at crazy prices, and they have to take you for every last cent, some people see $$$ and no amount will ever be enough for them).

Some disciplines are also less friendly to newbies for sure, especially when you look at the (My knowledge is super limited to just the last 4 years) but some of the disciplines seem to be quite the arms race and some I'd frankly never consider because I feel downright priced out of even entering is (My presumption may be completely wrong, and I don't know what I don't know)

For anything to survive it needs new folks to be interested in it, so the journey is twofold, I wouldn't have stuck around despite an interest if folks weren't welcoming in my short journey, and absolutely there were places that despite extensive experience in other disciplines I felt like I had to jump through silly hoops to folks that seemed intent on putting their club out of business, and other places it felt amazing to just show up, and everyone is having a great time, people were super helpful, and encouraging.

We all learned from someone who took the time to try to teach us.

Anyway, always a risk putting yourself out there, cheers!

Why this doesn't have more likes is beyond me

 

[Bottom Fodder]

Getting in our sport can be very intimidating today. A new shooter goes to a match and sees what’s on the line and then hear what all that cost if you can find it, then comes home and starts looking at shooting forums and reading what people do just to prep brass, bullets and load and the cost of equipment and supplies to do that. They may decide to stay with playing Golf

 

[David Milisock]

We have ourselves to blame for low match attendance. Selfishness. Most all of us have back up equipment and back up to back up. There is no way we couldn't find a young person that would love to come try a match but doesn't know how. The selfishness part is it is going to take time away from your match time to help them. Its worth the sacrifice.
Todd

I agree that the new shooters, regardless of discipline need to be apprentices to the old. The worst issue (and this has been for 70 years) is the marketing.

Teaching bad practices in handgun shooting that have saturated the police departments. Three cops carrying 36 rounds fire 43 round at 25 feet making 2 hits. At least one guy reloaded. Where did the other 41 rounds go. Home defense with firearms that can penetrate 3 to 5 walls of a modern home, the list goes on for ever.

The AR crowd doesn't have anyone to teach them basic rifle skills without force multipliers. Ex-special forces guys making YouTube videos and making money on marketing. They play games and influence the growth of silly beyond reason.

I would ask, where are the knowledgeable people to train new people, but in most cases that I've seen it's a waste of time. I've seen too many frustrating discussions on ranges that turn into arguments between those with 40+ years of real world experience and someone who believes that his or her pistol, rifle or some BS organizations certification combined with their arrogance actually means something.

Shooting sports has a significant amount of mess in it and the internet/marketing is not a help.

 

[M-61]

Ex-special forces guys….

I have serious doubts about these claims.
SF, Seals, etc. They are everywhere. Wild claims. Guy told me he was in the FFL. (French Foreign Legion. ) Could not speak or understand one word of French. Anyone who is familiar with them, knows this is impossible. Not improbable, impossible.
I find the club members themselves as being responsible. The fixtures in the club welcome no one.