Is FFP the new 6.5 Creed?

[Konocti's Wigwam]

Looking at polls and remarks from FB groups. All the FFP/SFP polls and all the remarks from LR/ELR shooters. I just can't figure out all the FFP love, especially from the ELR guys..... It's like 90/10 FFP.

I have both and think they both work fine. FFP is a more expensive reticle to produce, but for what I do it doesn't seem to matter. Used in a hunting situation the dot is a dot no matter if it is in FFP or SFP.

What is it that you don't agree with on FFP? I ordered a 1-8 FFP LPVO, and currently have a 1-4 SFP LPVO. I have no qualms with the 1-4 SFP, but felt 1-8 is a bit more comfortable when extending out to 400-500 yards. Not sure I will take game at that distance, I currently only feel comfortable out to about 300 yards.

I'm not using it on a 6.5 Creedmoor though, am I not cool until I do that? hehehe

Funny enough, you seem to have more issue with the 6.5CM crowd. I have 308, but would like a 6.5CM, better ballistics.

 

[6Creed73]

FFP is a big advantage for PRS. I hardly ever dialed my scope because I could use the reticle way faster.

I'm not a big hunter outside of some nuisance coyotes on family land, but a FFP is handy for hunting too for the same reason. I totally understand why most people prefer them, it just does more than a SFP. I like my SFP Sightron as well, but only on the bench.

I guess with the comparison to 6.5 creedmoor you're wondering if FFP is a fanboy scope? No way, it's a necessity in certain disciplines, like PRS. By the way, almost everyone I've competed with over the years shoots a 6mm cartridge.

 

[spudgun]

FFP vs SFP. Boy have I had many discussions with customers when they are looking for a new scope.

I ask what are they going to do with this 6-24 power scope?

Some say hunting, I ask at what yardage. They say 100-200 yds. I say SFP and maybe go for a lower power scope.

Some say long range shooting out to 1000 yds. I say FFP 6-24 power.

When they ask why, I say because the reticle of a FFP on low power will be difficult to see at a 100 -200 yd distance. SFP reticle will be easy to pick out the cross hairs and find your target quickly.

At longer distances and higher power the FFP scope will be easy to see the reticle and the hash marks will be true at any power and you can use this to measure your target when the range is known.

If your a target shooting on steel you can measure how far off you shot is and correct via dial or hash marks quickly.

They quickly understand when I have them look through SFP and FFP at lowest power.

Now for the 6.5 Creedmoor.....

I shoot 6.5 CM and 6 CM on my long range guns. Love them both for 600 - 1200 yd shooting.

 

[Tommie]

I like the FFP theory. Bought a few but then discovered (as many others have) that the hashmarks get bigger than Rosie O’Donnell’s fanny at higher magnification. For some shooting disciplines that’s not a problem. For me it was a non-starter. Switching back to SFP now

 

[dcali]

Different tools for different jobs. FFP is really nice for spotters at unknown distance. The creedmoor isn’t a bad case design either.

 

[Konocti's Wigwam]

I guess with the comparison to 6.5 creedmoor you're wondering if FFP is a fanboy scope?

I think I was reading his post like that, but don't feel like a fanboy myself. Just that the ballistics are better than 308, which is a fine cartridge. I have a Vortex PST 2.5-10 FFP, and it is currently what I would use for extending out past 300. As I mentioned my 1-4 SFP is fine for that. I'm not sure if I made a mistake yet, I haven't received my 1-8 FFP scope yet. But as I mentioned, a dot is a dot is a dot. Whether it is SFP or FFP, I don't see the problem for what I'm doing. If I was shooting PRS with it, that might or might not matter.

No way, it's a necessity in certain disciplines, like PRS. By the way, almost everyone I've competed with over the years shoots a 6mm cartridge.

Lots of factors and the fact we have both scopes and both are widely used speaks in volumes.

The last thing I want to end up as is a fanboy ninja paper puncher. But the 6.5CM has quite a bit going for it, including barrel life.

 

[6Creed73]

I think I was reading his post like that, but don't feel like a fanboy myself. Just that the ballistics are better than 308, which is a fine cartridge. I have a Vortex PST 2.5-10 FFP, and it is currently what I would use for extending out past 300. As I mentioned my 1-4 SFP is fine for that. I'm not sure if I made a mistake yet, I haven't received my 1-8 FFP scope yet. But as I mentioned, a dot is a dot is a dot. Whether it is SFP or FFP, I don't see the problem for what I'm doing. If I was shooting PRS with it, that might or might not matter.


Lots of factors and the fact we have both scopes and both are widely used speaks in volumes.

The last thing I want to end up as is a fanboy ninja paper puncher. But the 6.5CM has quite a bit going for it, including barrel life.

Absolutely agree, 6.5CM is a great cartridge as is the 6CM. I never understood the hate of the 6.5CM, I think people tend to bash what is popular. But it's popular because it performs. Imo, the 6CM and the 6.5CM feel like cheating sometimes...I make my decisions based solely on performance and don't really care what anyone thinks about it. They can buy what they want.

With that said, If you are just using it as a long range target gun, I'd recommend 6mm Creedmoor over 6.5. 6mm does pretty much everything 6.5 does but with less recoil. You give up a little in energy, but that means nothing in a target gun. And since you already have a .308 you don't really need the 6.5 for hunting...Id go 6mm all day.

 

[Konocti's Wigwam]

Does that also mean 6mm has better barrel life than 6.5mm ??? (since it has less recoil)

 

[Downeast]

I have both. SFP works for me in F Class and hunting. The little PRS shooting I do then FFP seems to work a little better. I hunt a lot in the evenings, 15-30 minutes after sundown and if you dial down a FFP scope to maximize the light transmission the reticle seems to just disappear. Both have advantages and disadvantages. It all depends on what you are trying to accomplish.

 

[spudgun]

Does that also mean 6mm has better barrel life than 6.5mm ??? (since it has less recoil)

No, I'm on my 3rd, 6 CM barrel. If I keep the FPS under 3000, I get better barrel life.
Last barrel was around 1,100 rounds.

I am also on my 3rd 6.5 CM barrel, got 990 rounds and still shooting 6-7" at 1K.

 

[Konocti's Wigwam]

No, I'm on my 3rd, 6 CM barrel. If I keep the FPS under 3000, I get better barrel life.
Last barrel was around 1,100 rounds.

I guess I fall into thinking recoil is what effects barrel life, but in reality it seems the velocity one shoots at.

I don't know how long a 6.5cm barrel would last but estimate 3000-4000 to be conservative. I have never gone through a 308 barrel yet, but I have several of them at this point, and one has about 3500 rounds through it. I haven't shot it for a while, but will try to test that soon. I have some 150 gr CX bullets that should work well in the 308. I also have some 180 gr CX, but Hornady seems to recommend 165 and 150 for 308, when I reference their app.

The honest truth is that *ME*, like most shooters have way more options, calibers, rifles, etc...than I really need. I wish my shooting wasn't always evolving, but maybe if that was the case I would lose interest.

Biggest thing I have learned from people here recently is that nothing is cast in stone, I can change any of my builds into multiple calibers...I'm gonna keep watching, but the one I know for certain is 6.5CM unless I want to buy other parts.

 

[urbanrifleman]

Ffp is amazing. Anyone who hasn't used a hold over article with ffp hasn't experienced a whole other level capability... At least in terms of aquiring and holding dope on targets at varying distances.

Tubb's ffp DTR system was two decades ahead of the competition.

Ffp has been around quite a while. If there are FFP "fanboys" then they are pretty late to the party.

 

[6Creed73]

Does that also mean 6mm has better barrel life than 6.5mm ??? (since it has less recoil)

My old 6.5CM lasted 2200 rounds and I switched to 6CM instead of rebarreling the 6.5CM. The first barrel on the 6CM lasted 1960 rounds and was still shooting pretty good. You might get a tad more life out of the 6.5, but not much. And if you aren't shooting matches, then you'll get more than both those numbers. I definitely could have still used that 6CM barrel if I was just target shooting for fun.

 

[wedgy]

I never understood the hate of the 6.5CM, I think people tend to bash what is popular. But it's popular because it performs.

It's not so much that they hate the cartridge but more so the hype around it and the newbie crowd that can't stop bragging about how they can hit a fly at a mile but when you ask them what their drops are at 500 yards they say it's right there on the ammo box.

 

[whatsupdoc]

It's not so much that they hate the cartridge but more so the hype around it and the newbie crowd that can't stop bragging about how they can hit a fly at a mile but when you ask them what their drops are at 500 yards they say it's right there on the ammo box.

That is because for the most part you can hit small targets at long range with some 6.5 creed factory rifles. I had two RPR and a Bergara B14 and all were capable of hitting a 5" steel plate
at 1000 yards. I had top tier German optics on them and handload for them but the rifles
were stock.

 

[ronsatspokane]

I've owned both. FFP does not work in F Class or Benchrest for me so I'm now all SFP MOA. I think for hunting or PRS they might be useful but I'd never range with one when my Kilo 2000 give me dead nuts on distance.

As far as the mighty 6.5 Creed, you'll only get your hands on mine when you've cut off my man bun, lifted my short tee shirt and pulled out my nipple rings and given me a wedgy in my skinny jeans.

 

[Tommie]

That is because for the most part you can hit small targets at long range with some 6.5 creed factory rifles. I had two RPR and a Bergara B14 and all were capable of hitting a 5" steel plate
at 1000 yards. I had top tier German optics on them and handload for them but the rifles
were stock.

Ya kinda made his point

 

[Bottom Fodder]

So you can walk out of Walmart with your new creed and factory ammo and FFP Tasco and kick some tail 1st match

 

[shoot4fun]

Looking at polls and remarks from FB groups. All the FFP/SFP polls and all the remarks from LR/ELR shooters. I just can't figure out all the FFP love, especially from the ELR guys..... It's like 90/10 FFP.

It's like the FFP/6.5 Creed are in the same boat...if you don't use it you are just plain ignorant. EVERYONE knows the the 6.5 Creed/FFP is the best.

The ONLY advantage , in my mind, of the FFP, is being able to hold over at any power setting. I get it...especially in PRS. But ELR and LRBR?? Otherwise, holdover is holdover, weather in mils or moa.

Does anyone use them for ranging duties anymore?

And most of the FFP scopes I have seen in the past, the reticle gets WAY to big for ELR.

How many guys in the big ELR matches like the KO2M matches actually use FFP scopes.

Sorry...all this sitting (limping) around has gotten me stir crazy. Rant over.

Tod

Why do you even care?
Is someone forcing you to have a 6.5 Creedmoor and an FFP optic?
Or do you just feel like you might be missing something?
I don't shoot PRS but I do own several FFP optics. And they are all Mrad.
It bothers me more that most of the reticles these days are cluttered "Christmas-tree" and have an open center with a tiny dot there.
Here's the thing. I know how to us both Mrad and MOA and they both have their place.
The only people who don't know the 6.5 Creedmoor's glory has faded are the rifle manufacturers. The (as Craig Boddington might byline) "Fast Sixes" are in.

 

[AccelR8]