Tuning with a bloop tube. Help

[JimSC]

Maybe you’ll change your mind…..after you shoot your very first card in a match…..you never know.

Perhaps I will, but if I do it is because I have proved to myself it does or does not work. This week I should have some good testing weather. If the testing goes well I may switch to unlimited in July...or not

One thing I learned in F class was pay attention to what people do, not what they say, and above all else test everything yourself in practice.

There is an old story about a young guy asking a seasoned veteran what wind dope he was used, the old guy said six right, the young guy gets to the line, dials in six right and comes back and tells the old guy "I used six right and ended up in the 8 ring" the old guys said "yeah me too"

 

[TRSR8]

"Pay attention to what people do", sage advise.
So when I referred you to the extensive thread written by the sponsored world champion about equipment used, I believe your response was "well if it works for him".......a fine example of paying attention I believe.

 

[JimSC]

"Pay attention to what people do", sage advise.
So when I referred you to the extensive thread written by the sponsored world champion about equipment used, I believe your response was "well if it works for him".......a fine example of paying attention I believe.

I also made a point about testing yourself, not just blindly following, The kid in the story just blindly followed what the "champ" told him and ended up in the 8 ring. Had he made his own wind calls he would have probably been better off

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

There are numerous tuners that have shown to work behind the muzzle. I prefer it to be beyond but you can still tune a bbl to shoot with a behind the muzzle tuner, IME. That supports my position on how tuners work. We don't move the node to the end, but the anti-node. Big difference and it can only be one way or the other...not both. The two are opposites of one another. To that same end, I don't see the point in bloop tubes but do what works for you.

 

[JimSC]

I will plead total ignorance on theory but I think most will agree it is just another tool for tuning and I will always be using some sort of tuner on any competition rifle that allows it.

 

[VLNBYR]

If you take the top 10 or top 20 shooters in each of this weeks PSL, Area 3, and Triple Crown events I think you could count on the fingers of one hand the ones who didn't use a tube. 90% for and 10% not. It's 100% they can't hurt.

 

[Mt.Boy]

If you take the top 10 or top 20 shooters in each of this weeks PSL, Area 3, and Triple Crown events I think you could count on the fingers of one hand the ones who didn't use a tube. 90% for and 10% not. It's 100% they can't hurt.

Very good point

 

[Mt.Boy]

To those of you that use them. Any place to to start with it. Just the tube, slider at one end? Any help would be great Thanks

 

[linekin]

If you take the top 10 or top 20 shooters in each of this weeks PSL, Area 3, and Triple Crown events I think you could count on the fingers of one hand the ones who didn't use a tube. 90% for and 10% not. It's 100% they can't hurt.

While I haven't found the Holy Grail of tune with one I know they work. My 1st real experience with them came at the matches leading up to '15 triple crown where everyone but me seemingly had them, & was kicking my butt. Nobody up north used them, at the time, so it was a real eye opener. So naturally, I bought one. It seems like almost everyone uses one down south.
This thread led me this weekend to try & revisit mine & in true spirit of ornaments added a mid barrel tuner as well. End result was I used up a shit ton of hard chambering Eley, & got my best results w/o the slider. Mid barrel tuner is staying for now.

 

[JimSC]

To those of you that use them. Any place to to start with it. Just the tube, slider at one end. Thanks

well this thread got me thinking and I have almost a case of practice ammo that shoots so-so in my factory rifle so yesterday I started a new tune for that ammo using the 40X. At the same time, I tried a second ammo with the same rough settings to see if the settings would parallel. They did not. I started by running through the entire tuner range with the slider off the rifle first with the SK PMS then the RWS Rifle Match. The SK PMS is the one I have almost a case of and that lot shoots fairly well in my CZ's but not great so it was sent to the practice ammo shelf.

Sunny 78F some wind 4-5 mph with switches. Some settings were shot twice when the wind would shift and stay that way for more than a minute so I would do two groups, one with one wind condition and a second with a different wind condition. No scope adjustments were made and I used a bullseye hold on all shots. Groups 1- 18 were mostly 3 shot, some got an extra round if I thought I had pulled one or had one sudden wind shift. The rifle was cleaned with every ammo switch

I started with the tuner at -3 which is as far back as it will go then shot groups at 100 to 500 with each ammo. Once I had done that I attached the bloop tube and shot a group with the slider in set at hole set 1, 2, and 3 and the tuner in the -3 and 400 setting.

targets 1- 18 with just the tuner, no bloop tube. Targets 1-8 are the SK, targets 9 -18 RWS. Targets 19 -24 are SK

The next step will be using the SK and exploring settings 400 and 100 up and down in smaller increments with the 3-5 round groups and bracketing in the best setting. My initial settings with the older lot of SKPMS performed best with a tuner setting of 390 - 405 with the slider in position 2

All things considered, this was great practice as well as a lot of fun and I think I may have learned a few things

 

[Mt.Boy]

well this thread got me thinking and I have almost a case of practice ammo that shoots so-so in my factory rifle so yesterday I started a new tune for that ammo using the 40X. At the same time, I tried a second ammo with the same rough settings to see if the settings would parallel. They did not. I started by running through the entire tuner range with the slider off the rifle first with the SK PMS then the RWS Rifle Match. The SK PMS is the one I have almost a case of and that lot shoots fairly well in my CZ's but not great so it was sent to the practice ammo shelf.

Sunny 78F some wind 4-5 mph with switches. Some settings were shot twice when the wind would shift and stay that way for more than a minute so I would do two groups, one with one wind condition and a second with a different wind condition. No scope adjustments were made and I used a bullseye hold on all shots. Groups 1- 18 were mostly 3 shot, some got an extra round if I thought I had pulled one or had one sudden wind shift. The rifle was cleaned with every ammo switch

I started with the tuner at -3 which is as far back as it will go then shot groups at 100 to 500 with each ammo. Once I had done that I attached the bloop tube and shot a group with the slider in set at hole set 1, 2, and 3 and the tuner in the -3 and 400 setting.

targets 1- 18 with just the tuner, no bloop tube. Targets 1-8 are the SK, targets 9 -18 RWS. Targets 19 -24 are SK

The next step will be using the SK and exploring settings 400 and 100 up and down in smaller increments with the 3-5 round groups and bracketing in the best setting. My initial settings with the older lot of SKPMS performed best with a tuner setting of 390 - 405 with the slider in position 2

All things considered, this was great practice as well as a lot of fun and I think I may have learned a few things

View attachment 1444254

Great info. Thanks for all the help. My tuner is on 405. Seems like that has by far been the most consistent I have found

 

[VLNBYR]

The holes in the paper will speak to you and tell you what works and what doesn't.

 

[Mt.Boy]

The holes in the paper will speak to you and tell you what works and what doesn't.

Just curious how much do you adjust the slide each time

 

[JimSC]

Just curious how much do you adjust the slide each time

my tube has a series of holes which line up with the holes in the slider, large medium and small. When I say I have mine in position 1 it means the slider holes are aligned with the large holes on the tube, position 2 the medium holes etc. You could move it farther forward I suppose, as VLNBYR posted let the holes in the paper tell you what you need to know. I'm just having fun with mine trying to learn as I go along. Looking at yesterdays results I think next session I will play with tuner set at 50 and 100 and go from there with and without the tube while adjusting slider positions and tuner settings using instinct and let the paper tell the story

 

[VLNBYR]

I always start with the tuner all in and tube naked. Then I will work with the tuner going out 2 turns max. If I'm not happy I go back to all in and add the slider and work with it.

A lot of the results depend on how good your gun and ammo are and how much you know can or can't be done.

 

[Mt.Boy]

my tube has a series of holes which line up with the holes in the slider, large medium and small. When I say I have mine in position 1 it means the slider holes are aligned with the large holes on the tube, position 2 the medium holes etc. You could move it farther forward I suppose, as VLNBYR posted let the holes in the paper tell you what you need to know. I'm just having fun with mine trying to learn as I go along. Looking at yesterdays results I think next session I will play with tuner set at 50 and 100 and go from there with and without the tube while adjusting slider positions and tuner settings using instinct and let the paper tell the story


View attachment 1444329

Thanks. That’s the same tube I have.

 

[Mt.Boy]

I always start with the tuner all in and tube naked. Then I will work with the tuner going out 2 turns max. If I'm not happy I go back to all in and add the slider and work with it.

A lot of the results depend on how good your gun and ammo are and how much you know can or can't be done.

Thank you Mr Prince. I appreciate your help

 

[TRSR8]

If you take the top 10 or top 20 shooters in each of this weeks PSL, Area 3, and Triple Crown events I think you could count on the fingers of one hand the ones who didn't use a tube. 90% for and 10% not. It's 100% they can't hurt.

And how many, truly great rifles shot by great shooters that have won big matches over several years and set world records use them John ? I dare say that there percentage is far far lower.
Lastly, whether you love the guy, or hate the guy, no denying the record of WLM guys laid down over 3 decades. What’s that percentage John?

 

[VLNBYR]

And how many, truly great rifles shot by great shooters that have won big matches over several years and set world records use them John ? I dare say that there percentage is far far lower.
Lastly, whether you love the guy, or hate the guy, no denying the record of WLM guys laid down over 3 decades. What’s that percentage John?

Like all sports things change over time. I didn't compete 20 or 30 years ago but I do have to run with the big dogs in today's world so I just do what I do. I have only reported what I see at today's big matches, it is what it is. Some of today's best shooters do run equipment that would be approved by the WLM, they are just a minority that's all.

Virtually everyone who competed even 5 years ago says the bar has been raised a bunch, today's scores are through the roof and what won or was top 10 back then will get you mid-pack now. Equipment is a large part and you keep up or you don't, price is the same either way.

 

[TRSR8]

better barrels, more better barrels, better ammo.
World class rifles built more than 5 years ago are still world class rifles…….unless Todd cleaned them.