6.5C, H4350, Berger 140 Target bullets

[Garbageman]

I am pulling my hair out trying to find a good load that matches the Hornady 140gr Match ammo. I started today with factory Hornady to get velocity, SD and group size and as you can see in the attached pic the group was incredible. All shots were fired from 100yd using a Caldwell rest.

Then I fired seven rounds loaded with 40.6 and the results were less than stellar. Those shots are in the lower left and right corners

Then I tried 40.8 and 41.0 and neither were good. These test rounds were seated to 2.86" as my lands start at 2.88" and I thought maybe if I shrank the jump it would help. It didn't. The factory Hornady is about 2.8125", magazine length. The Hornady also has a lower velocity so I'm thinking I should try going back to 2.8125" with the Bergers and a lower powder charge? I tried 40.4 and 40.6 on a different trip and the velocity averaged 2734 and a SD of 18.8. 40.6 got me 2757 and SD of 15.6. Groups were better than what I got today but still nowhere as good as the factory Hornady.

Suggestions? No idea why the pics are rotated

 

[spudgun]

Try some Hornady 140 ELD's.

I can get those groups with: 140 ELD, 40.5gr H4350, .030 off the lands, 2690 FPS.
Barrel length of 28"

 

[Eagle Six]

Out of curiosity which Berger bullet, 26401, 26409, or 26414?

 

[Garbageman]

Out of curiosity which Berger bullet, 26401, 26409, or 26414?

26409. 26414 is unobtanium these days and none are scheduled for production

 

[Kracken McGraw]

Can you put them in from touch some if you aren’t mag restricted.

 

[newbieshooter]

26409. 26414 is unobtanium these days and none are scheduled for production

Berger 140 hybrids (26414) available here:

Berger 26414: 6.5mm 140gr Hybrid Target, 100/Box

26414: 6.5mm Berger 140 Hybrid bullets - Made with J4 Precision Jackets, the Hybrids have exacting tolerance and near-perfect construction.

www.milehighshooting.com

 

[Eagle Six]

Berger 140 hybrids (26414) available here:

Berger 26414: 6.5mm 140gr Hybrid Target, 100/Box

26414: 6.5mm Berger 140 Hybrid bullets - Made with J4 Precision Jackets, the Hybrids have exacting tolerance and near-perfect construction.

www.milehighshooting.com

View attachment 1443807

So that is one source available, although a bit steep especially with their shipping!

You live 20 miles off shore! Lots of places to shoot long range out there! NICE!

 

[Eagle Six]

26409. 26414 is unobtanium these days and none are scheduled for production

I don't think I have ever shot the 409's. I'm shooting the 414's with 42.0 grains H4350, Alpha and GMM205 and it produces similar groups to your Hornady factory.

 

[Garbageman]

I don't think I have ever shot the 409's. I'm shooting the 414's with 42.0 grains H4350, Alpha and GMM205 and it produces similar groups to your Hornady factory.

Unfortunately I only have winchester primers to work with. I was using hornady brass and with 42.0 I was hitting 2810 but the groups paled in comparison to factory hornady match. The alpha brass is heavier thus the case capacity is a little less than hornady

 

[Garbageman]

Can you put them in from touch some if you aren’t mag restricted.

?

 

[Garbageman]

Try some Hornady 140 ELD's.

I can get those groups with: 140 ELD, 40.5gr H4350, .030 off the lands, 2690 FPS.
Barrel length of 28"

I do have some as I was loading those and then someone told me berger would be better so down the rabbit hole I went.

 

[SKWERLZ]

I do have some as I was loading those and then someone told me berger would be better so down the rabbit hole I went.

I’d work with jump more to get the accuracy you want rather than powder

 

[Garbageman]

Are there any theories as to what powder hornady uses in that cartridge? I pulled a bullet but didn't recognize the powder. The charge was 40.0 grains.

Is there any software that will predict the velocity of a particular powder, bullet, primer, etc?

 

[spudgun]

I tried that some years ago. Did not get any answers.

About the only way would be to do some progressive testing with powder .charges.

Measure the FPS of the factory loads and work you testing until you match it. you will need a Crono for this or if you lucky and know someone that has one.

Using the same cases and bullet weight and type.

Last year I did a primer test on the 1000 yd range. The electronic targets told me the FPS at the 1000 yd target.

Loaded up my 6.5 CM with 6 different primers (all Small rifle). After shoting 5 shot groups I recording the FPS for each group and putting it into a spreadsheet there was only 29 FPS difference from low to high FPS.

Good luck

 

[Eagle Six]

As @spudgun suggest, if you are trying to duplicate a factory load I would go back to the Hornady bullet, Hornady cases. You cannot duplicate the factory primer or power. You can test different primers and powder if they are available, but you should be able to get better results with what you have. Your gun likes the ELD bullet and the cartridge overall length. I would start there and do some powder load testing. I think at your stage three round groups should be enough to get something closer. Work up some test loads in the minimum to maximum .3 - .5 grain increments and run test again.

When we make our own loads, most often we can make them better than factory match. But not always. Is there anything in your loading process you feel may be tripping you up? I don't know your ability, your equipment, or other results you may have produced. Perhaps you would give us a run down on the loading steps you take. A member may be able to make some suggestion if any of your steps need improvement. Just a thought.

 

[MUP]

Try some Hornady 140 ELD's.

I can get those groups with: 140 ELD, 40.5gr H4350, .030 off the lands, 2690 FPS.
Barrel length of 28"

I'm using the Hornady 140 ELD-Ms in my 6.5 CM but using Superformance powder. It's what I was shooting the other day at the range out to 1000 yards.

 

[qldreloader]

I'm currently planning to duplicate the Hornady 140gr Match ammo with the same bullet, Hornady brass once fired in my rifle, H4350 and Federal large rifle primers.

My plan was to fire 7 rounds of the match ammo over the chrono (after 3 fouling shots with hunting ammo) and find the average velocity. From there I was planning on taking some reloads at the same seating depth as the factory ammo loaded with 3 rounds each of 40.5, 41, 41.5 and 42 grains of H4350 and pick the one with the closest average to the factory ammo.

The factory ammo shoots around .75MOA in my rifle but my usual load development with other bullets has not yielded anything that would do much better than 1.25MOA. It is the only rifle I've ever had trouble getting to shoot. Rifle is a Lithgow LA105 Woomera.

 

[fisherman987]

Drop your powder down to 40.1

 

[Garbageman]

Drop your powder down to 40.1

I loaded up 39.8, 40.0 and 40.2. I also measured from the base to the ogive of the Hornady ammo and duplicated that with the berger bullets. The OAL is a bit longer with the bergers so we'll see how it shoots

 

[Robert G]

41.5-41.7gr of H4350 @ 2.800 has shot in every 6.5CM I've owned. I was trying to duplicate the Precision Hunter ammo with the 143 ELDX bullet. I ended up slightly faster. At one point they were using Superformance in Creedmoors, not sure now.
If you have a Hornady reloading manual you'll notice they stop at 41.5gr of H4350 as max. There is a reason for that. Hornady states with some published maxs listed they found nothing that shoots better with more powder. Not all fall into that category but the 6.5 CM does.