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Pre bore the chamber results?

Been watching this thread for a long time and was wondering when the methods used by those trained as machinists vs those trained as gunsmiths would be highlighted. Its obvious, usually, how one was trained if enough is posted. That said, there is still a lot to learn, good and bad, from what is discussed, without it getting personal. As my mentor has told me a million times, "there is more than one way to......(well, the way he says it is not ok to post on the forum :) but you get the point"
 
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All I know is after Jackie so graciously published his chambering method on the benchrestdotcom forum 15+ years ago my run out and chambering improved enough that other than experimenting a couple times, it’s the only way I’ve chambered since. Interapid should have sent Jackie a commission check for all the long reach indicators he’s sold for them.

I’ve seen it on this forum so many times where someone who thinks they know more than a gunsmith or shooter who is at the top of his respective sport and or trade denounce them to the point of they no longer share their knowledge. I can think of at least 4 world record holders and gunsmiths that rarely post now if at all.

There are certainly other ways to chamber but Jackie’s method is easy, fast and consistently gets extremely low run out. That is indisputable to me.
 
And so the discussion degrades, as the per the usual path...

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Discussions degrade when someone makes asinine statements concerning things that are in truth proven fact.

Then we, many of us who are quite knowledgeable in certain fields, try to find a polite way to tell them they are wrong.

there is an old saying that goes like this……..”it is not a crime to make a mistake out of being ignorant. Ignorance simply means that you have not obtained the proper knowledge of any given subject. How ever, once you are exposed to the facts and the correct methods, and you continue to persist on following the incorrect path, you are no longer ignorant, you are just stupid”.

We go out of our way to avoid calling people stupid. I assume they have been over on “bangaway.com” and picked up information from idiots or perhaps was getting their info from someone trying to sell them something rather than educate them.

This Site prides it’s self in being the leading extreme accuracy Site where shooters can get the real scoop on all firearms related issues from those that actually do it and have decades of experience in varied fields.

Let’s keep it that way.
 
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Young feller, do whatever makes your insides warm and fuzzy. Your so called "machinist" friends need to go back to a basic machining class as Jackie said!
For starters I am not young and the gentleman in question has been a machinist for 30 +years and runs some high dollar equipment think 6 figures plus. The company he works for builds precision parts.

They do not let guys that don't know what they are doing run machines like that or build precision parts on them with million dollar contracts on the line.

You are assuming a lot that you can straighten that hole better than the barrel maker who made it who more than likely has better tools, gauges, and so on our you would be making your own barrels.

How do you know it is off in the first place? Sure all bores curve but you what looking at 3 to 5 inches or less in depth from when they started the hole to just about any throat out there.

You are going to tell me a high quality barrel maker in this day and age does not have that hole in that short of a distance dead nuts? Really?

Pre boring was designed for one reason so a gunsmith could save on reamer wear period.

If its the end all be all why is a guy like Robert Gradous not doing it?

Let me guess Robert does not know that a hole can be straightened right?

Like I said the theory is flawed you are assuming the bore is already off so you need to go in and line the chamber up to it.

If you are really convinced that hole is off why chase the hole than run a boring bar? Why not just start with the boring bar and skip the drill bit?

You are also assuming you are not getting any tool deflection because of light cuts but your cross feed does have any deflection or the boring bar or tool holder right?

I did not learn from a rifle builder I learned from a machinist and shooter who has done really well in the shooting world and guess what he does not pre bore either.

So you want to pre bore go for it. You want to chuck it up in a 4 jaw and just dial the throat in and never mind the wobble on the back half, Cut the threads and chamber knock yourself out.

But do not try and tell me its more accurate than dialing in the throat and breach in and then running a reamer in because the results I see and thousands others see doing it this way speak for itself.
 
Discussions degrade when someone makes asinine statements concerning things that are in truth proven fact.

Then we, many of us who are quite knowledgeable in certain fields, try to find a polite way to tell them they are wrong.

there is an old saying that goes like this……..”it is not a crime to make a mistake out of being ignorant. Ignorance simply means that you have not obtained the proper knowledge of any given subject. How ever, once you are exposed to the facts and the correct methods, and you continue to persist on following the incorrect path, you are no longer ignorant, you are just stupid”.

We go out of our way to avoid calling people stupid. I assume they have been over on “bangaway.com” and picked up information from idiots or perhaps was getting their info from someone trying to sell them something rather than educate them.

This Site prides it’s self in being the leading extreme accuracy Site where shooters can get the real scoop on all firearms related issues from those that actually do it and have decades of experience in varied fields.

Let’s keep it that way.

I thought that was Benchrest Central... Hahaha

This forum was started when the Forum Boss bought a prefit barrel in 6br for his Savage. Ask him,he will tell you. Hardly as lofty as you stated.

It was actually started to be more of a forum for the "everyday guy" looking to upgrade.
 
As the saying goes, when you dig yourself into a hole, the first step in getting out is to lay down the shovel.

I have no idea what that means.

I would be very careful continuing this narrative that there are "approved" expert posters. And everyone else should simply be listening to them.
 
I thought that was Benchrest Central... Hahaha

This forum was started when the Forum Boss bought a prefit barrel in 6br for his Savage. Ask him,he will tell you. Hardly as lofty as you stated.

It was actually started to be more of a forum for the "everyday guy" looking to upgrade.
Confused sir, are you saying that a person that has knowledge and experience is not welcome on the forum? Maybe you didn't mean that but is how I took it. I am certainly not in the class of a lot of the smiths and machinist on this forum, but I do know where the on-off switch happens to be.
 
Confused sir, are you saying that a person that has knowledge and experience is not welcome on the forum? Maybe you didn't mean that but is how I took it. I am certainly not in the class of a lot of the smiths and machinist on this forum, but I do know where the on-off switch happens to be.

I didn't say that. I didn't imply that. I find it very odd that that was the conclusion that you came to from reading my post. I was simply commenting on what I feel is a certain group of people that seem to want to remake this forum into something it was never started to be. And I got that origin story straight from the Boss.
 
It's also possible that this is just a technique for stirring up more crap. To imply that I said something that I never said at all. Something that actually came from the imagination of another person and then that will be used in subsequent posts to say that I said those things. It seems to repeat itself here all the time. Like a person can take a post and weaponize it, misquote it, take it out of context and then that becomes the basis for more replies.

I never said that anyone is not welcome to post on this forum. I said there are people that imply that there should only be certain people allowed to post on this forum (because they are "experts"), I am certainly not one of them. Quite the contrary.
 
People do things differently and that's human nature.machine-chamber a barrel which ever way suits and gives you a straight concentric chamber that's to specification..that's what we strive for.some methods and fats don't always convince people they are right even if they are right.a drill is for drilling.a reamer is for reaming-not drilling.im not saying to anyone don't use your reamer for drilling.
 
I didn't say that. I didn't imply that. I find it very odd that that was the conclusion that you came to from reading my post. I was simply commenting on what I feel is a certain group of people that seem to want to remake this forum into something it was never started to be. And I got that origin story straight from the Boss.
As I said, your post confused me. Not jumping you, just clarification wanted.
 
It's also possible that this is just a technique for stirring up more crap. To imply that I said something that I never said at all. Something that actually came from the imagination of another person and then that will be used in subsequent posts to say that I said those things. It seems to repeat itself here all the time. Like a person can take a post and weaponize it, misquote it, take it out of context and then that becomes the basis for more replies.

I never said that anyone is not welcome to post on this forum. I said there are people that imply that there should only be certain people allowed to post on this forum (because they are "experts"), I am certainly not one of them. Quite the contrary.
Anybody can Post on these Forums. It is part of the wide world of knowledge that is a product of The World Wide Web.

That does not give people the option to log on and make asinine statements and not being expected to be called out.

I would find it difficult to believe that The Forum Boss would want this Site to morph into a free for all of dis information, considering one of the major tenants of “Upgrading” is finding out how to do it correctly.
 
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As I said, your post confused me. Not jumping you, just clarification wanted.

I tried to respect all posters on this forum. I will say however, I'm not a big fan of the snobbery aspect that some people promote I've never been a snob. There is a ton of snobbery for shooting sports to its detriment
 
FWIW Robert is no longer on this earth.
I had not heard that and that really sucks. Robert was going to let me come down and spend some time in his shop when I was thinking about buying a haas to watch his in action. Robert also gave me some guidance on how to build a power flush system when I built mine.

That really sucks that he passed he was a very kind and generous person.
 
Anybody can Post on these Forums. It is part of the wide world of knowledge that is a product of The World Wide Web.

That does not give people the option to log on and make asinine statements and not being expected to be called out.

I would find it difficult to believe that The Forum Boss would want this Site to morph into a free for all of dis information.

You really should reread what you just posted. Because it sure sounds like to me that you would need to be one of the people that determines what is good information.
 
I had not heard that and that really sucks. Robert was going to let me come down and spend some time in his shop when I was thinking about buying a haas to watch his in action. Robert also gave me some guidance on how to build a power flush system when I built mine.

That really sucks that he passed he was a very kind and generous person.
Nearly 3 years ago. WAY too young!
 
Because it sure sounds like to me that you would need to be one of the people that determines what is good information.
I don't read it that way. I do not believe that he is declaring he's an absolute arbiter of truth but someone with the experience to call something out that doesn't agree with his experience. He's got a lot of experience in the game and results to back it up. I don't do everything the way he does but I certainly can't and won't say he's wrong because he isn't.

As to the poster that declared pre-boring is a waste of time (paraphrasing). In reading on how he chambers it just might be but for others with a different setup, method and goals it may not be so neither is absolutely wrong. Different methods to get to the same point might require different techniques. Hell I'll do things differently on two different barrels depending on how that barrel looks once I get it in the lathe and get indicators on it. Does it matter in the end???

One last comment: Do all of the successful F1 teams (or any race team for that matter) have the same program and do the same exact thing to get them into the winners circle? Hell no :)
 
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