Got brass troubles. Cause ? Video posted

[Rocketvapor]

How's your trim length? Flowing brass usually requires trimming.

 

[DLT]

How's your trim length? Flowing brass usually requires trimming.

I have not had to cut any, No I lied. I trimmed the first firing but since I been letting it go to set it, Was wanting it to get pretty close to the throat to ease carbon ring issues if one was to develop, brass didn’t last long enough to get there

 

[DLT]

Fixing to be on firing no. 5 with LC brass. Have checked my cases after each firing they measure 1.449. Backed my die out to only size the neck for this testing

 

[SecondsCount]

Remind me again the tool you are using to measure headspace on the fired brass?

 

[DLT]

Remind me again the tool you are using to measure headspace on the fired brass?

Hornady headspace gauge or comparator, it measures the length but does not measure the width part

 

[SecondsCount]

Edited with corrected values-

Okay, unless there is some big difference between my tool and your tool, I measure 1.457-1.461 on fired 223 brass- depending on if it is an AR or bolt gun. Bolt gun is typically ~1.457

I just measured two factory new 223 loaded rounds and one measured 1.4560 and the other 1.4565

 

[DLT]

Okay, unless there is some big difference between my tool and your tool, I measure 1.57-1.61 on fired 223 brass- depending on if it is an AR or bolt gun. Bolt gun is typically ~1.57

I just measured two factory new 223 loaded rounds and one measured 1.560 and the other 1.565

Must be a difference does yours zero out on 2.000 ?

 

[SecondsCount]

I totally spaced and left out a digit. On some cold medication at the moment :/

See above post with correction.

Your headspace still looks short.

 

[DLT]

To the horde. I have been testing this evening with 4 pieces of LC brass. I did not bump my shoulders back during sizing. Cases measured 1.449 - 1.450 before firing and after. I put 5 firings on them today with 2 from a prior session so total is 7. I ran 3 firings with a charge of 24.3gr varget and the other 2 was a stiff 23.2gr charge of ar comp with a 69gr smk. I believe I can pick up a faint line with my eyes around the cases. If so it’s not a sizing problem or a headspace length wise or a brass problem. If it was to be a too fat chamber how could that have happened ?? It had been bore scoped several times and the throat isn’t wonky it’s nice and even looking to me.

 

[DShortt]

To the horde. I have been testing this evening with 4 pieces of LC brass. I did not bump my shoulders back during sizing. Cases measured 1.449 - 1.450 before firing and after. I put 5 firings on them today with 2 from a prior session so total is 7. I ran 3 firings with a charge of 24.3gr varget and the other 2 was a stiff 23.2gr charge of ar comp with a 69gr smk. I believe I can pick up a faint line with my eyes around the cases. If so it’s not a sizing problem or a headspace length wise or a brass problem. If it was to be a too fat chamber how could that have happened ?? It had been bore scoped several times and the throat isn’t wonky it’s nice and even looking to me.

You'll have to make a chamber cast and measure it. Could be several things but likely a set up problem when the chamber was cut *if* it is in fact oversized.

 

[DLT]

You'll have to make a chamber cast and measure it. Could be several things but likely a set up problem when the chamber was cut *if* it is in fact oversized.

If a chamber was perfect, and good sizing techniques with a 223 the pockets should go long before a case ever separated right ? I think I read where people that run a 223 hot lose the pockets after a few firings

 

[DShortt]

If a chamber was perfect, and good sizing techniques with a 223 the pockets should go long before a case ever separated right ? I think I read where people that run a 223 hot lose the pockets after a few firings

I don't know about long before as I don't usually run hot loads but having said that about the time I'm about ready to cull brass some of the pockets are getting loose.

 

[DLT]

Wonder if what Im experiencing is normal for a warmer load ? I’m pretty sure I can see the line forming but no doubt I can get one more firing. That would be 9 total on LC brass. My load was chronographing at 3030 fps

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

I'm guessing there is some variation in the Hornady comparator bodies. With that SAAMI chamber 1.4636-1.4736 max. Cartridge 1.4666(-0.0070). My Lyman ammo checker lower step flush gives me brass that measures 1.4590, I set my die to size to 1.460 max. This will chamber properly in 2 AR and 2 bolt guns. If I was loading defensive ammo, I would probably set the die to drop brass a thou under the bottom step. Brass would be 1.458 on my comparator.
Fed Am eagle tracer 1.4550
Fiocchi vmax 1.4530
Fed am eagle tactical 1.4545
Nosler Bt 1.4565
Hornady .330 comparator.
All the factory ammo drops below the low step on the Lyman ammo checker.

 

[SecondsCount]

I'm guessing there is some variation in the Hornady comparator bodies. With that SAAMI chamber 1.4636-1.4736 max. Cartridge 1.4666(-0.0070). My Lyman ammo checker lower step flush gives me brass that measures 1.4590, I set my die to size to 1.460 max. This will chamber properly in 2 AR and 2 bolt guns. If I was loading defensive ammo, I would probably set the die to drop brass a thou under the bottom step. Brass would be 1.458 on my comparator.

Do you have some factory loaded ammo? What does it measure?

 

[pdhntr]

I took a notion to cut open a new bag of starline from midway split a case and see what I could. This is what it looked like

https://imgur.com/a/PIgHsQV

Is it a uh oh or normal ? Click the picture or video it should play

I won't comment on what others are not seeing, but I certainly see what can be a flaw in the case as you move it back and forth. As the reflected light plays across that area it looks as though it is thinner than the brass around it.

Looks exactly like the beginning of case separation as viewed from the inside.

If this was my problem, I would strongly consider chasing this issue down before questioning my reloading process.

Jim

 

[Rsadams]

I did reach out to them. Waiting to hear back. I checked the brass out best I could by head stamp markings and weight. I wonder if the shop could have ordered in big quantities and bagged up 100 at a time to sell.

That's definitely possible.... It's also possible you might have found a problem before starline found it... I consider starline a premium brass but anything is possible these days.... Hope you get it figured out for sure , right now it's tough enough in the gun world with out manufacturing problems adding another one...

 

[Ray123]

Stop annealing...start with new brass, load the same for 5 or more cycles...see any difference?
I run LC and Starline mixed in the 300 Ham'r with no problems. Have a bunch of Starline brass in various calibers rimmed cases and a thousand 450 Bushmaster, 1250 pcs 6.5 Grendel converted to 6 ARC none have had that problem. I do not anneal any of them. Except the straight wall 6.5 Grindel was like .430" had to go down to 6 mm neck in steps and anneal. Case forming has taught me a few things about annealing...it has a time and a place...and is not always desired...as soft shoulders will crush and buckle when shoulder angles reach 30 to 40 degrees...I do a trial and error on scrap brass. And how you make your rough forming dies on wildcats. Like 6.8 blackout from 30-06 / 270 win no anneal no lube, move a 30° shoulder back .680" with perfect 30° shoulders no lube dents, no anneal. Things never change if everyone does the same process and proceedures...think outside the box, and go there, experiment, question, explore, be creative...way more fun than just reloading ammo. The die I built for the 8.6 blackout is the only one of its kind...ideas just came to me as I begin to make the die on the lathe...what if? Will I ruin what I've already created? Visualize...What if it works?Questions have answers, but sometimes you have to take a chance...and do it.

 

[dantiff2]

Did you see the low looking spot inside halfway up the case in the reflection ? That wrinkle or what ever it is doesn’t transfer to the outside of the case.

DLT, you are correct about the change in case wall thickness in that area. I sent a few of the pictures from this thread to Starline and Hunter( Process Manager) replied back to me saying "That is where the first taper on the inside terminates, our 223 brass is super thick at the base, so if it was going to separate that would be the spot!"
Dan

 

[DLT]

Mine is a wylde chamber if that was to matter any at all, and also jamming .010. If 7-9 firings is “ normal” for a warm load jammed I’ll just roll on and keep a eye on it VS having it rechambered. If I was to make a cast with cero safe would we learn much from that ?