• This Forum is for adults 18 years of age or over. By continuing to use this Forum you are confirming that you are 18 or older. No content shall be viewed by any person under 18 in California.

9mm reloading Economics

Stand your ground or not, the facts can be brought into question and that is when it is important. No, I'm not a lawyer, just somebody that reads many, many civilian use of force cases and it is something I've seen come up multiple times, even in 'stand your ground' and 'castle doctrine' states. Despite favorable self-defense laws, one can still find themselves in court. I'm not telling you what to do, it really doesn't matter to me, but it is something that should be considered for anybody strapping a gun to their hip.

Are you a lawyer?

I'd like to add for D-4297, that if you are ever involved in a self-defence shooting, the prosecutor is going to want a conviction, and there are enough obscure laws for them to fall back on to get you convicted for defending yourself. "Custom ammo" is only one of them, which can be twisted to "intentional maximum harm ammo" which may very well be illegal to use.

Then, they come for you in a civil suit for loss of earnings of the family "breadwinner".
 
I have seen plenty 115 and 124 grain fmj for .25-.27 per round.
That is what I am thinking. I do not have a progressive press so I would have that upfront cost. I was doing the math on how many rounds it would take to get that money back. I could not make it pencil. I can not find SPP for less than 10 cents each buying them by the 1000 or 5000. With shipping and Hazmat in addition to it all. The math does not work. I just bought 1000 rounds new shipped to my door in less than 3 days. $280 all in. 28 cents a round. Am I missing anything?
NY cant ship to home. Need to ship to FFL and they charge 20% of purchase cost just to hand you your own ammo. Plus the new law is you have to provide your ID and they record your address, ammo type, quantity etc as NYState wants records of who is buying what. Soon you will have to prove you own a weapon that uses said ammo type.
 
NY cant ship to home. Need to ship to FFL and they charge 20% of purchase cost just to hand you your own ammo. Plus the new law is you have to provide your ID and they record your address, ammo type, quantity etc as NYState wants records of who is buying what. Soon you will have to prove you own a weapon that uses said ammo type
Commies
 
NY cant ship to home. Need to ship to FFL and they charge 20% of purchase cost just to hand you your own ammo. Plus the new law is you have to provide your ID and they record your address, ammo type, quantity etc as NYState wants records of who is buying what. Soon you will have to prove you own a weapon that uses said ammo type.
That would suck!!
 
  • Like
Reactions: TMc
I'd like to add for D-4297, that if you are ever involved in a self-defence shooting, the prosecutor is going to want a conviction, and there are enough obscure laws for them to fall back on to get you convicted for defending yourself. "Custom ammo" is only one of them, which can be twisted to "intentional maximum harm ammo" which may very well be illegal to use.

Then, they come for you in a civil suit for loss of earnings of the family "breadwinner".
In today's market how affordable can you manufacture pistol ammunition at home? The premise is you have the brass, and you do not pay Hazmat fees. You need primmers, powder and bullets. What is recipe to roll your own for local club steel matches, and what does it cost you per round?
I shoot cast bullets from Missouri Bullets. If you have any primers pre-shortage prices, it’s pretty darn cheap to load with once fired brass and a few grains of Bullseye.

And yes, I’ve heard of Court precedent with regards to hollow point hand loads in self defense. Victim was considered to have hand loaded with the intention of shooting someone.
 
I only shoot jacteted bullets in my 9mms loaded on a progressive. From 50gr gr copper Hp to 185gr FP...I can adjust the performance of the round in handguns and the AR15 where the performance is really enhanced by the longer barrel and plus p ammo. 2500 fps with the tiny 50 copper hp, 1740 fps 115 gr or 1630 fps with 124 gr 1320 fps with 147 gr..over 700 ft/ lbs of energy, from a 9mm, with almost unlimited variety of bullet and powder combinations, when you handload. I have fired only one factory center fire round in all handgun and rifles I own,...in 50 yrs. That was a 300RUM to get a max pressure base line of case head expansion, when it was new and no load data available. I still have 19 of the 20 factory cartridges, and it needs a new barrel...factory cartridges are not even close to the performance of my handloads... or go subsonic instantly just because ya want to, in any caliber, even the 50BMG...no waiting on a factory to provide you with many times inferior general duty ammo, where some guns will shoot it fairly well some won't even function...but it's fine for plinking if it functions the pistol.
 
For practice I've been using bulk 9mm bought before the covid silliness, but the kids** like to reload their own when they visit. Luckily I had amassed a pile of components before the Clinton years some of which are still here. So... for 9mm they use range brass that's been picked up over the years, 4.3 to 4.5 gr of W-231 out of cans that have an $8.99 price tag on them (almost 1600 loads per pound), primers from $9.98/1000 bricks, & either Hornady jacketed 115s from boxes marked $6.98 or American cast 115s @ $18/500.

Brass... free
Primer... .50/50
Powder... .25/50
Bullet... 3.50/50 or 1.80/50

That's either $4.25/50 for jacketed or $2.55/50 for the cast. Everything I own is large primer except for 9mm & 6PPC. I'm getting low on SP primers & decided to buy some recently. With shipping & hazmat they ended up right at $100/1000. So future cost will be $8.75 or $7.05 per 50 until powder or bullets need replaced at:

Today's Prices.
Brass... still free
Primer... $5/50
Powder... $1.50/50
Bullet... $6/50 for cast

That's $12.50/50 or .25c each. Hoping Georgia Arms is back up to speed before I need to load any 9mm with new components.

**My kids are in their 30s, so hoping this doesn't cause trouble with the California authorities.
 
Stand your ground or not, the facts can be brought into question and that is when it is important. No, I'm not a lawyer, just somebody that reads many, many civilian use of force cases and it is something I've seen come up multiple times, even in 'stand your ground' and 'castle doctrine' states. Despite favorable self-defense laws, one can still find themselves in court. I'm not telling you what to do, it really doesn't matter to me, but it is something that should be considered for anybody strapping a gun to their hip.

Are you a lawyer?
No ! But having had a issue with this situation , I got very involved with a Lawyer some twenty + years ago , and though I did everything by the Book , the victims relatives sued . Short story ? They Lost their suit , and the Judge , being reputable , made them pay my costs . All of them . I have no fear of the Justice system in Arizona , because there have been enough precedents established , and the Courts have seen this all before .

You allude to facts being brought into question , and I'm curious . What Facts ? Any loads that can be used safely in a handgun can't be determined to be illegal , therefore no issue . I am a competent reloader with Decades of experience for both pistol , and Target rifle . As my Lawyer said during the Case , you aren't the guy they expected to get on the stand .
 
I'd like to add for D-4297, that if you are ever involved in a self-defence shooting, the prosecutor is going to want a conviction, and there are enough obscure laws for them to fall back on to get you convicted for defending yourself. "Custom ammo" is only one of them, which can be twisted to "intentional maximum harm ammo" which may very well be illegal to use.

Then, they come for you in a civil suit for loss of earnings of the family "breadwinner".
You mean the Illegal who broke into my front door at 3:00 a.m. with a crow bar and a hunting knife . "That" Breadwinner ? Sounds to me like I need to sell all my guns and reloading equipment , and find a safe space to curl up in . Never thought I'd ever read stuff like this on this site ! Especially this site !
 
You mean the Illegal who broke into my front door at 3:00 a.m. with a crow bar and a hunting knife . "That" Breadwinner ? Sounds to me like I need to sell all my guns and reloading equipment , and find a safe space to curl up in . Never thought I'd ever read stuff like this on this site ! Especially this site !
It's not about what you choose to do, it's about being aware of the possible consequences according to the law.

Justice is not what you imagine it to be.

Better read it here, than find it out for yourself.

If it's an illegal immigrant that put you and your family's lives in danger, the NGO funded federal procecutor is definitely going to want your blood.

And if you're the wrong-for-these-times skin color, you could be labelled a murderous white supremecist in the media.

Addendum : I remembered a story not long ago, just Google for George Kelly. In the media coverage, it doesn't say where on his property the shooting took place, they just say "on his property".
 
Last edited:
El cheapo 9mm; I've not seen the question yet; so I'll ask it here. Have you thought about cast bullets? They may not be worth the hassle depending on what you're after, but say 147ish gr where velocities are low anyway, could be an option?

To minimize costs, I see the following:
Cost of materials
Brass - I love my range; lots of fresh 9mm to be had.

powder - trade off between what's cheap and available, vs what is popular. Mil-surp or bulk are my recommendations.

Primer - I found this new primer; super low cost, it's called "out of stock". 100% ignition failure though, so I don't recommend them.

Bullets - again bulk, which makes it hard to test them if you've committed to 10,000.

Materials thoughts:
Brass, I love range pick-up, but yes it's more labor, and questionable as to what's it's history. This is a $ vs hrs question. I SS wet tumble the batch and sit at home inspecting the bunch in multiple small batches to break up the monotony. Brass collection to reuse brass and divide it's costs across the uses is important.

Primer, I buy what I can find. Sub $0.05 each if I can; but honestly I'm out of small pistol at this moment.

Powder, like bullets this is hard to test having already committed to bulk. Good news 1lb lasts a long time and 9mm is usually 5.0gr or less meaning that price if 1lb is divided to at least 1400 rounds. Question then is do you acquire a popular but more $$ powder; or go super cheap and get something that you know will function? (I've got 8lbs of Unique; it's a lifetime supply for me, oops ~7.699478lbs now).

Bullets, here's the biggest cost of a loaded round. Bulk, sale, estate sales, cast, or cast your own. Pay the $$ up front for small boxes and get out and try them all, whatever you can find. You want to learn what works, what does what you want, and what to avoid. Good news, you don't lose the whole bulk investment if you buy 10k and they don't work for you, post em here and re-coup some costs.

Equipment:. Ammortize (haha, see what I did there?) Your equipment over your ammo, how much do you need to load to make a purchase worth while? How much labor do you save? I once loaded up a $1500 9mm round because I was curious. Now that I have all this free equipment, might as well keep shooting.

Labor: ok let's be honest; we all pay ourselves very poorly, but we get to enjoy being responsible for the outcome. If only the shooter that I load for (which is also me) would practice more and get better!

I used to load on a single stage system. Totally doable, 100/200 round batches are my recommendation. I highly recommend you get loading using your equipment first, any idea how many people just give up on 9mm cause they can buy it and don't want to spend the time?

I moved to a Hornady lnl ap just because of pistol and 223. Love it, takes me 30 minutes to get everything dialed in nicely. 1 hour = 300-400 rounds. Limited by how often you check the system is still dialed in. I use a Wilson case gauge or a barrel from my pistol as a check on each one. Scale checks every 10. Biggest labor time now is loading up the 100 primer feed tube; and I've fixed that too; but I need to keep some safety as well.

My loaded cost?
Primer 0.032
Powder even at $500 for 8lbs, that comes out to $0.044 per round (5gr)
Bullet - cast. I like to say recycled. Say $0.12
Brass - free, I toss all the Glocks into a recycle bin. I get about $1.5/lb for brass recycle.
Bacon - about 5lbs for the whole process. Dang that stuff is $$$. Need to make my own now. That or fire my laborer and hire a new one, maybe one who knows how to shoot better.

Option I've not explored: coated bullets. I'm not loading for PCC, but that's a powder/velocity choice question where the answer sets your costs.

-Mac
 
To get back to the op’s question, for handgun I reload 9mm, 357 mag and 38 special’s. I have a bunch of powder and primers for that from pre-inflation days. The only expense at this point is the plated or fmj bullets I use. As I am retired, I do it for a hobby and relaxation.
 
Tylerw02 and buzz, maybe start your own thread to continue your measuring contest. Yeesh!!!
I started loading 9mm during this shortage and will continue. I've had the dies for the dillon for a long while but as cheap as 9mm was at the time it just didn't seem worth it. Doubt we'll ever see 8 and 9 cent rounds again! Best around my area is 14 or 15 a box. As of right now using pre shortage components it's worth the time to load them. We'll see what the future brings on prices but it sure ain't looking good!
 
Which cases? Which facts? Inquiring minds want to know.
Well, I remember a case that was wrote about by Masad Ayoob about this guy who made up some light loads for a .357 magnum for his wife to shoot. She ended up putting the gun to her head and he tried to stop her, she killed herself, he was prosecuted for murder. The prosecutor refused to believe his story because there wasn't enough powder residue (etc.) on the victim to have been a .357 load and surmised that she was shot from a distance and did not shoot herself. It is your word as to what loads where in the gun, and as posted no ballistic data to back up your claim.

Defending yourself in your home is an entirely different situation than being involved in a shooting some other place.

Back to the 9mm topic, it probably is not cost effective to load your own 9mm if you shoot the 115 grain bullet which is on sale most of the time, but in my case, I already have the bullets, brass, primers (which I had to buy anyway), and powder, reloading is an option.
 
The equation always falls back to how often do you shoot. I have years worth of brass thanks to an old friend. I also have very good brass that i play with my higher powder loads. I find it much more affordable with my system . YMMV
 
It's not about what you choose to do, it's about being aware of the possible consequences according to the law.

Justice is not what you imagine it to be.

Better read it here, than find it out for yourself.

If it's an illegal immigrant that put you and your family's lives in danger, the NGO funded federal procecutor is definitely going to want your blood.

And if you're the wrong-for-these-times skin color, you could be labelled a murderous white supremecist in the media.

Addendum : I remembered a story not long ago, just Google for George Kelly. In the media coverage, it doesn't say where on his property the shooting took place, they just say "on his property".
Really appreciate all the "FREE LEGAL ADVICE" ! .....NOT ! ABSOLUTELY NOT ! Especially when it's coming from someone who doesn't really know and understand American Gun Laws . I'm just fine with my comments regarding the issue , and very much aware of the ramifications of my actions . You sound so much more like a Gun Grabber , than a 2A supporter , and I'll leave it right there . Maybe the laws are different in South Africa , but I don't presume to be knowledgeable enough to offer "Legal Opinions" on issues there .
 
Really appreciate all the "FREE LEGAL ADVICE" ! .....NOT ! ABSOLUTELY NOT ! Especially when it's coming from someone who doesn't really know and understand American Gun Laws . I'm just fine with my comments regarding the issue , and very much aware of the ramifications of my actions . You sound so much more like a Gun Grabber , than a 2A supporter , and I'll leave it right there . Maybe the laws are different in South Africa , but I don't presume to be knowledgeable enough to offer "Legal Opinions" on issues there .
Keep abreast of the news in your country, then you won't have to solicit opinion from dumb people.
 
It's not about what you choose to do, it's about being aware of the possible consequences according to the law.

Justice is not what you imagine it to be.

Better read it here, than find it out for yourself.

If it's an illegal immigrant that put you and your family's lives in danger, the NGO funded federal procecutor is definitely going to want your blood.

And if you're the wrong-for-these-times skin color, you could be labelled a murderous white supremecist in the media.

Addendum : I remembered a story not long ago, just Google for George Kelly. In the media coverage, it doesn't say where on his property the shooting took place, they just say "on his property".
Keep abreast of the news in your country, then you won't have to solicit opinion from dumb people.
I don't remember soliciting opinions from anyone . You chose to offer your opinion , fully un-solicited , by anyone . Especially me .
 

Upgrades & Donations

This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.


Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.

You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.


To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.

Forum statistics

Threads
165,073
Messages
2,189,263
Members
78,688
Latest member
C120
Back
Top