Jan 2023 NRA Highpower RuleBook

[makurtz]

It's like any other competitive sport. Push the grey areas to the limit till "they" say "you can't do that"!

 

[Taildrag15X]

i was telling about the rule book in racing, not shooting. My point was that the rules weren’t left vague, like this is. The entire rule book here needs to be clearly written. Just like there’s no clarity to this spirt thing. It mentions apparel, does that mean that someone can bitch about the color of your underwear? I’m just trying to say, what exactly does spirt mean? To myself, being honest and helpful to fellow competitors is more important then whining about someone else’s equipment.

I've been following HP Rules in Competitions for close to 50 years and I'll tell you it's not the color of your underwear but the fact you are wearing it as "outer wear".

Ever read this one? I think it spells out you have to wear trousers, not shorts.

I know one Range that dosen't allow flip flops.

3.12.1 Shooting Pants—Trousers made of cotton, cotton twill, khaki or similar weight material which may have non-slip- patches added to the knees and buttocks are permitted. Trousers made of any heavier material for example, leather or canvas are considered to provide artificial support and are prohibited.

 

[Sumtoc]

All,

My letter didn't get any response whatsoever, so I forwarded it to Aaron Farmer to see if he can help us get an official interpretation.

This is disappointing, especially from an organization that was founded to promote competitive shooting. Hopefully they'll respond with clarification soon.......

 

[Ringostar]

I've been following HP Rules in Competitions for close to 50 years and I'll tell you it's not the color of your underwear but the fact you are wearing it as "outer wear".

Ever read this one? I think it spells out you have to wear trousers, not shorts.

I know one Range that dosen't allow flip flops.

3.12.1 Shooting Pants—Trousers made of cotton, cotton twill, khaki or similar weight material which may have non-slip- patches added to the knees and buttocks are permitted. Trousers made of any heavier material for example, leather or canvas are considered to provide artificial support and are prohibited.

Everyone reads things differently. I wear shorts and sandals while shooting. To my eyes, that doesn’t ban shorts, but says IF you wear special shooting pants, what they need to be made from. I can’t survive in the heat, Im old and fat. I would leave a big greasy mess on the firing line as I lay there rendering!

 

[kzin]

It's like any other competitive sport. Push the grey areas to the limit till "they" say "you can't do that"!

And then when they do make it clear you can't do that whine that it was legal last year and they're being arbitrarily restrictive.

 

[Albany Mountain]

How does felt meet the definition of a bag??

 

[kzin]

i was telling about the rule book in racing, not shooting. My point was that the rules weren’t left vague, like this is. The entire rule book here needs to be clearly written. Just like there’s no clarity to this spirt thing. It mentions apparel, does that mean that someone can bitch about the color of your underwear? I’m just trying to say, what exactly does spirt mean? To myself, being honest and helpful to fellow competitors is more important then whining about someone else’s equipment.

The spirit is to compete with the next guy at who can shoot better.
Not who can think up a competitive advantage in gear.
Wear whatever pants you like - unless they reduce your wobble area.

Of course that spirit has not been followed well in what has been allowed either.
Because some schmuck figured out a heavy purpose built coat is an advantage in sling shooting now everybody who wants to be competitive has to buy and wear one( no matter how hot it is).

ETA - I do absolutely agree the rules and enforcement suck.

 

[Drolds72]

How does felt meet the definition of a bag??

It doesn't. It also doesn't require bags to support the sides- just prohibits rollers from doing so. Larry B made a comment earlier, as one of the original authors of the rules, that the contact point was meant to be the bottom of the forearm, not the entire forearm. So with that in mind, using "forearm" to define the bottom of the stock, a deformable sandbag on the bottom, and anything but rollers on the sides. I believe the definition of forearm should be consistent throughout the rules. If the sides are to be treated as the bottom, then the 8.94" contact point should apply as well, and not many will be legal.

 

[kzin]

It doesn't. It also doesn't require bags to support the sides- just prohibits rollers from doing so. Larry B made a comment earlier, as one of the original authors of the rules, that the contact point was meant to be the bottom of the forearm, not the entire forearm. So with that in mind, using "forearm" to define the bottom of the stock, a deformable sandbag on the bottom, and anything but rollers on the sides. I believe the definition of forearm should be consistent throughout the rules. If the sides are to be treated as the bottom, then the 8.94" contact point should apply as well, and not many will be legal.

(9) F-Open Front Rest Bags - The fore-end of the rifle must rest upon and/or be guided by the front bag(s) described elsewhere in this section. The rifle may not be supported or guided during recoil by rollers, wheels, or any other mechanical device.

 

[sfinn1]

We should just make a new sport and shoot with slings. Who needs rests anyways.

Yes, Jeremy. I'm all about you using a sling

 

[Drolds72]

(9) F-Open Front Rest Bags - The fore-end of the rifle must rest upon and/or be guided by the front bag(s) described elsewhere in this section. The rifle may not be supported or guided during recoil by rollers, wheels, or any other mechanical device.

The fore-end of the rifle......

from post #162
FWIW I was involved in the drafting of the F-Class portion of the NRA HP rule book back in the very early 2000’s. Much of the rules were based on the Canadian F-Class rules and hence the ICFRA rules. Any rule changes nowadays should comply with ICFRA rules. A number of items have never been clarified in either set of rules. But I can tell you what the intent was.

If a rule states -“The F/O rifle may be supported by a “front rest or bag”. This was meant to be “a front rest” of some kind such as a tripod or bipod which many used then. The “or bag” meant just a big sandbag or a sandbag as part of a tripod rest. The “rifle fore-end will not exceed 76mm x 76mm” was understood to mean the bottom of the fore-end, not including the sides. Keep in mind BR also played a bit in the FO game and might explain the “sand”. My 1st FO rifle was a 6BR bench rifle.

I have not found a specific definition of the fore-end as we have for the actual bag. I am deferring to the guy who wrote the rule. Mind you, if foreend is found to include the sides, the contact point of 76sq mm should apply as well.

 

[Warren Dean]

This is getting really entertaining.

 

[Drolds72]

View attachment 1416740

This is getting really entertaining.

 

[sdean]

Everyone reads things differently. I wear shorts and sandals while shooting. To my eyes, that doesn’t ban shorts, but says IF you wear special shooting pants, what they need to be made from. I can’t survive in the heat, Im old and fat. I would leave a big greasy mess on the firing line as I lay there rendering!

Know the feeling. I have gotten used to women and younger men always trying to help me. I just smile and thank them. Best bunch of people you will ever meet at a Fclass match. Just use a sand bag on your rest and make them happy. There should be a procedure to get new things approved in a timely manner.

 

[Keith Glasscock]

Just received this from Aaron Farmer, Deputy Director of the Competitions Division. Unless a conflicting official interpretation from the Highpower Committee is provided, I think this serves as a good general interpretation of the rules.

Keith,

I will work on this and I will add it to the rule change sheet that usually gets posted with the rule books.

The simple answer is Just take the wheels off. Nothing else has changed.

The wheels were a mechanical device that shouldn’t have been on the rest to begin with. Those were never sent to the committee to get approved. I think this was a case where someone looked at it and made an opinion and then the wild fire spread from there.

In discussion with Rod I know he is working on something new to fix this and has already sent a few things out to folks. I would use the felt on the walls in place of the wheels. If you don’t have wheels then carry on with what you have. This has nothing to do with any of the mechanics/locks below the rest. I believe that as long as you still have a bag under the rifle itself you should be good to go. I’ll see what I can do about getting something with more clarification and post it next to the rule books. Others have asked me to do the same. Maybe that will appease the rulebook lawyers!

Sorry I haven’t gotten to your emails prior as I have a few and working on Nationals too.

Aaron

 

[Ruger15151]

Well there you go! I think the answer from Aaron was crystal clear! Thanks Keith for taking the lead on this.

 

[kzin]

The fore-end of the rifle......

from post #162
FWIW I was involved in the drafting of the F-Class portion of the NRA HP rule book back in the very early 2000’s. Much of the rules were based on the Canadian F-Class rules and hence the ICFRA rules. Any rule changes nowadays should comply with ICFRA rules. A number of items have never been clarified in either set of rules. But I can tell you what the intent was.

If a rule states -“The F/O rifle may be supported by a “front rest or bag”. This was meant to be “a front rest” of some kind such as a tripod or bipod which many used then. The “or bag” meant just a big sandbag or a sandbag as part of a tripod rest. The “rifle fore-end will not exceed 76mm x 76mm” was understood to mean the bottom of the fore-end, not including the sides. Keep in mind BR also played a bit in the FO game and might explain the “sand”. My 1st FO rifle was a 6BR bench rifle.

I have not found a specific definition of the fore-end as we have for the actual bag. I am deferring to the guy who wrote the rule. Mind you, if foreend is found to include the sides, the contact point of 76sq mm should apply as well.

"The area of contact between the front bag and the rifle’s fore-end will not exceed 76mm x 76mm (2.99
inches x 2.99 inches)."

Let's go by the rule first, then somebodies written memories of the process second.
The phrases don't match in an important way.
The maximum area of contact (between the bag and fore-end) does not include the sides. Fine.
The fore-end is still the entire fore-end as in common use.
The foreend is certainly not only 3 inches of length of the fore-end.

 

[Ringostar]

So after all of this, Can I use one of those giant one piece bags that swallows the rifle stock? They don’t have rollers or any butt adjusters! Lol

 

[Albany Mountain]

So after all of this, Can I use one of those giant one piece bags that swallows the rifle stock? They don’t have rollers or any butt adjusters! Lol

Just shoot out if a bean bag chair.

 

[Sumtoc]

Just received this from Aaron Farmer, Deputy Director of the Competitions Division. Unless a conflicting official interpretation from the Highpower Committee is provided, I think this serves as a good general interpretation of the rules.

Great news and thanks for following through with this Keith. Just what we needed.