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Barrel turning

I bought a pre64 Winchester mod 70 with a 30cal palma barrel in 11.25 twist. It is an Obermeyer cut rifle barrel. I had it recontoured after I cut 6" off the breech to a #4 Shilen contour and chambered it in 308 for my favorite, at the moment, hunting rifle. Being cut rifle may have been the reason that recontouring didn't hurt it.
 
boltfluter said:
Walt,
I agree on pricing. Only problem with class 7 license is you will see the ATF every 5 years, by law, as you are considered to be a manufacturer. No thanks!! I will pay the extra for a class 1 any day. No visits is the correct number in my book.
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For me it was not the cost, it is what I do that requires the license. If all your paperwork is in order, the atf visit is no big deal. And if your paperwork is messed up, it won't make any difference what license you have when they visit. And sooner or later they are likely going to visit.
 
butchlambert said:
I bought a pre64 Winchester mod 70 with a 30cal palma barrel in 11.25 twist. It is an Obermeyer cut rifle barrel. I had it recontoured after I cut 6" off the breech to a #4 Shilen contour and chambered it in 308 for my favorite, at the moment, hunting rifle. Being cut rifle may have been the reason that recontouring didn't hurt it.
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I have made barrels for customers and they shot them and figured out they thought they were too heavy, some of them couldn't make weight for their particular contest at their club etc and they sent the barrel back to me and I contoured it after it had been chambered put a slight recut on the crown and sent it back and it didn't shoot one bit different.
 
I think it's wrong to assume that anything can be predicted when doing this with 100% results. If material stress is there... it'll show up. If not....cool.

If a guy was using a hydraulic follow or post grinder, it's a simple job, if not.....it SUCKS, especially on thinner contours.

Like most things we do here there's none that can't be done, but many that we wouldn't want to take the risk for a minimal reward. You are literally smashing a pipe between cones and trying to keep it from climbing your tool and becoming a mess.

I recontoured one barrel and after that I sent them to Mel Doyle for the service. Mel would do them for 40 bux. I had more than that in the clean up.
 
boltfluter said:
No is the correct answer. If he insists quote your hourly rate times 8. $725.00 should be about right! I once contoured one for myself that had been fluted from Hart barrels. Now that was quite the rodeo with the interrupted cuts! Customer insisted on doing a print himself and sending it to Hart. I told him to specify .006 taper per inch, he put down .006 per foot! Lol! So, l picked up a very good barrel for half price and the customer went off the deep end and stormed out! A win win in my book! Just say no is easier on everyone.

Paul
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Paul can probalbly weigh in here as he does some beautiful work!!!! How would the fluting, especially some of the deep cuts affect this same topic??? I am assuming there is still enough concentric material that will not allow the expansion, but am curious as some of the barrel mfgs do not recommend fluting????
stan
 
spike-55 said:
Paul can probalbly weigh in here as he does some beautiful work!!!! How would the fluting, especially some of the deep cuts affect this same topic??? I am assuming there is still enough concentric material that will not allow the expansion, but am curious as some of the barrel mfgs do not recommend fluting????
stan
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Which Paul??
 
By far the vast majority of my barrels were contoured be me, between centers after being cut to finished length +0.25............. Leaving about .25 for stock removal at the breech and muzzle ends in the final few steps.

My barrel process is a little different than others. After doing a lot of study and experimenting with the different methods I'm aware of, I developed a sort of mix of them for myself. It is VERY important to START plum and square as possible to the bore or you will end up stacking tolerances through the process. Which yields a non concentric bore to the contour.

I do it all by hand and not a CNC. A CNC does nothing except speed up and duplicate with precision measurements what can all be done by hand....but at a much faster rate. BUT, the blanks MUST be loaded properly into the CNC or every measurement will be off slightly and then stacking tolerances occurs. I think this is why many high end blanks are not truly centered on the bores of the blanks you buy. And with today's work force............well, you know what that's like. You're lucky if they just show up for work and even luckier if they do their jobs correctly.

With an uncontoured blank you can control everything except the condition of the bore.
 
std7mag said:
If i'm reading the OP correctly, the receiver threads are already cut?
And your NOT shortening it, so the muzzle crown has already been done.

So your looking at least a tail stock with a brass "button" (for lack of a better term).

I would be thinking the only way I would have it done would be on a CNC with coolant.
Bear in mind, i would take small cuts.

Set up properly, i don't see where it will affect the internal dimensions of the bore.

Your customer would be best reccomended to start from scratch on his load development if they have gotten that far with the barrel.
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The whole thing was on a rifle, ready to go, so yes, threaded, chambered, etc.

I made the buttons for centers, a sleeve for the drive dog to clamp on the tenon, set it up between centers, then offset the tail stock.

The work was done on a Grizzly lathe, not CNC, no flood coolant, just oil and a brush.

I won’t bore everyone with the details, but after making the buttons and sleeve, actual machining first cut to last, which meant taking the muzzle from .990 to .625, took about 4 hours. That time included getting rid of machining marks with a 4x24 belt sander, working through a couple grits, then some hand work down for a 180 finish.

Whoever made the barrel originally did good work, as there was only .001-.002 runout when I touched off for the initial cut.
 
urbanrifleman said:
This is incorrect.

Only applies if you are selling firearms that you manufactured. Usually includes serialized receivers that are being produced to be assembled into rifles. Not always, but usually. If you are assembling rifles out of parts to sell them, that is no longer "gunsmithing".

Gunsmithing is not manufacturing. Not even close.

Not saying the ATF couldn't decide tomorrow to make all gunsmiths pay $100k a year fee to install barrels. Because they could.
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The ATF rules changed since I tried to read them several years ago...as they often do...just like braces and short barreled rifles...after being build for several yrs the ATF said all the braced ARs are now Short barreled rifles...and need to be recalled to the tune of millions of dollars in cost to the builder to recall... or the owner has to apply for SBR.
I worked for a computor, robotics, gov contract company ...who decided for awhile they wanted to build AR 15 components. The company hired a specialized ATF consultant to help them get the correct ATF licenses for the company and navigatethe pages of ATF lawyer language laws...he was kept on the payroll, as long as they manufactured the AR components, which wasn't very long...I guess it wasn't a viable product. We only had one manual Hardinge lathe in the whole company...everything is CNC.
These ATF rule consultants are available for those wanting to do gunsmithing or specialized things like just plating or firearms metal finishing, silencers etc..
So if I were going to actually get into gunsmithing I'd check with a ATF consultant to help navigate the rules and laws not only Federal, but state, and city, regulations on what is current law and a heads up on possible changes. Some cities have gun free zones, against gunshops, sales, or gun possession, etc in certain government areas ...like near schools. So Don't open your gun repair shop there, or if your home repair shop is located inside these zones. So many laws and regulations...that continually encroaching and destroying the 2nd amendment rights, and the courts don't seem to mind...and the federal government just added millions to give to states in the last 1.5 trillion ecomomic inflation reduction package to help every state to pass red flag laws...the Federal government paying states to oppress its citizens...will your state take the money....mine did! Plus several new laws to go with it....and 2 more on the books, sponsored by a "Republican"? Helping Democrats pass more oppressive laws "for your safety"...just an example of how fast laws change...and why I won't do gunsmithing...too risky, with ever changing rules and fees..."just for your safety"...just the way the government wants it no one in the firearms industry.
 
Ray123 said:
The ATF rules changed since I tried to read them several years ago...as they often do...just like braces and short barreled rifles...after being build for several yrs the ATF said all the braced ARs are now Short barreled rifles...and need to be recalled to the tune of millions of dollars in cost to the builder to recall... or the owner has to apply for SBR.
I worked for a computor, robotics, gov contract company ...who decided for awhile they wanted to build AR 15 components. The company hired a specialized ATF consultant to help them get the correct ATF licenses for the company and navigatethe pages of ATF lawyer language laws...he was kept on the payroll, as long as they manufactured the AR components, which wasn't very long...I guess it wasn't a viable product. We only had one manual Hardinge lathe in the whole company...everything is CNC.
These ATF rule consultants are available for those wanting to do gunsmithing or specialized things like just plating or firearms metal finishing, silencers etc..
So if I were going to actually get into gunsmithing I'd check with a ATF consultant to help navigate the rules and laws not only Federal, but state, and city, regulations on what is current law and a heads up on possible changes. Some cities have gun free zones, against gunshops, sales, or gun possession, etc in certain government areas ...like near schools. So Don't open your gun repair shop there, or if your home repair shop is located inside these zones. So many laws and regulations...that continually encroaching and destroying the 2nd amendment rights, and the courts don't seem to mind...and the federal government just added millions to give to states in the last 1.5 trillion ecomomic inflation reduction package to help every state to pass red flag laws...the Federal government paying states to oppress its citizens...will your state take the money....mine did! Plus several new laws to go with it....and 2 more on the books, sponsored by a "Republican"? Helping Democrats pass more oppressive laws "for your safety"...just of how fast laws change...and why I won't do gunsmithing...too risky, with ever changing rules and fees..."just for your safety"...just the way the government wants it no one in the firearms industry.
Click to expand...

I think we should collectively tell the ATF to go eff themselves.

Like David to the men of Israel in regards to Goliath , will no man silence this uncircumcised heathen that blasphemes the God of Israel???

And the men stood silent.
 
std7mag said:
Glad to hear it turned out ok, so far.
The proof is in the pudding, or on the target in this case.
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Thanks. Not my favorite way to spend a Saturday, but a good friend came over and helped make the time pass. He had never seen something cut between centers, much less a barrel, so it was a learning experience for him.

For what it’s worth, i took light cuts with a heavy feed rate so while the chips were fairly hot, the barrel never was never more than barely warm.

Like any number of activities, a person occasionally needs a refresher course in things not at the top of their fun chart.
 
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