Some random ramblings

[Wolfdog91]

Reckon sometimes you need to just put something on the self for a bit so you can step back and come back to it with some fresh eyes. Just some random ramblings from some dealings I've been having with a perticular gun

So I bought this little H&R Ultra Varmint in .223 a while back. Basically a dream gun of mine , dad always talked about getting me one when I was younger but we never got around to it. I was 14 then 25 now and been looking for one . Anyhow ,found it to my amazement at a pawn shop, exactly the one I'd always wanted , picked it up aaannnd quickly realized that H&R's arnt really the best thing in the world as far as precision goes. I mean fresh from the pawn shop with some factory ammo I was getting all over 6" groups @100yd . Ewww. The crappy little barska 3-9 definitely didn't help.Asked around and apparently you couldn't get these things to shoot less then 3" on average even with reloads. And me being ADHD I tend to hyper fixate on things and if I'm told "no you can't make x do y" then , well everything in my brain is gonna want me to prove you wrong ( some call it being hard headed some call it a superpower ). So that paired with the rabbit hole of "precision" reloading I was going down at the time ( and still am really) I became obsessed with making this thing shoot sub MOA consistently @100yd .

Replaced the trigger, new scope base , went though three scopes , two bases , three sets of rings, four different powders ,bedded the forend, shot on bags, shot on a bipod, front rest rear bag, different bullets and brass ,heck even used cast bullets! All these "secret little does and does that are supposed to be inherent to the H&R. I found out about them and did them. Not gonna lie, all that tinkering is mighty fun for me honestly. Give me something that just works I tend to get bored of it rather quickly.

Well I'd get a .589 group here and a .670 there but this gun was just a 1"-1.5" gun. Just plain and simple. If I shot it 3rd 5rd or 10rd that groups was gonna be between 1-1.5's @100yd all day everyday


Well in disgust with myself I loaded up a box of the best load I had to date went out and shot this target to just try and cement that this gun was what it was .



I remember measuring all of these and minus the flyer they where all under 1.6". But yeah I just shrugged and pinned it to the wall figuring this was the best me and that gun could do and I remember feeling pretty bummed at the time. I wanted that thing to shoot little tiny bug holes at 100yd. But either me, the gun , my reloading skills or all three , just make it a 1.5 incher.
Well fast forward a few months today I'm blowing out my chargemaster lite and I look up and see that target and a few others of that gun pinned up on the wall. And I can't help but look at them... And I start laughing a bit remembering what that gun shot like when I first got it compared to these. "Went from 6" groups down to 1.5 average consistently ! That's like a 90% increase! " I thought
Then I looked at them more and started laughing even more shaking my head when I thought what I originally wanted that gun for ! Plinking cans and popping the occasional coyote or crow , mabye some hogs with some heavy pills ! I mean I looked at a 100yd group I shot with my little .22lr pesting rig. Roughly 3" @100yd with 10rd and I routinely drop pests with it out to 150 , bang flop ! Same with plinking . Out to .200yd that little 3" .22lr keeps me happy and killing targets. Not to mention I've won a many a bet with that gun the the 100yd line at the local range. And here I was upset with this gun I got for doing that, shooting half of what I use on the regular basis ?! And shooting 1/3rd what people said it would ?!
"And honestly how big is the kill zone one most of the animals I hunt " I thought. Realistically at the ranges I shoot game any 2" gun is more then enough. I also don't plan to shoot competition with it or anything so why was I getting so bent outta shape ? I mean honestly many wouldn't spit in the direction of a gun that shit 1.5" groups but honestly.... It's more then I need and it's doing more then is supposed to lol !
So idk , reckon I'll order some primers and get this girl loaded up and actually put her to use .
Anyhow just some a random little deal of mine I found funny

 

[joshb]

Ya done good! You can learn a LOT trying to get cheap guns to shoot better.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Main thing is you cant get discouraged when you cant fix what nobody else can either

 

[1shot]

Main thing is you cant get discouraged when you cant fix what nobody else can either

And to add to this. It sure feels good when you succeed and doing something that others say can't be done.
Good job,

Lloyd

 

[brokeasajoke]

Oh that trigger. The reason I sold mine. 1.5" at 50yds was best, but I wish I hadn't sold it.

 

[Kracken McGraw]

Yep, shoot and enjoy that rifle with a pretty thumb hole stock.

 

[22BRGUY]

Great read! Thanks!

 

[DShortt]

I've been down the same path a couple of times myself. Many would consider it a waste of time and resources, but I always want to understand exactly WHY something doesn't work well.
Sure, both of us could have waited until we could afford a custom rifle built by someone else that shot bugholes and learned nothing except perhaps to rely on the work and experience of others.
Nothing wrong with that. But I want to learn things. Not just repeat things others have learned.
Keep on keepin' on. That's what I'll be doing.

Thanks for the story. I enjoyed reading it.

 

[Bojo]

One of my friends had one of those a while back . He had problems as well.
Scope base to action needed quit a bit of work. Then he bedded it to the action.


Op your longer unsupported scope length could be a vibration issue as well.
Maybe try a shorter scope ????

Nice write up though for sure.

 

[FNSafari]

Ah, who said the only interesting rifle is an accurate rifle Actually 1-1.5" groups from a break top action isn't too shabby. Ya just need to match it to the hunting critters you may be going after...as in a bit bigger quarry.

 

[joshb]

Here’s one I just finished load development on. A Windham Weaponry AR in 7.62x39. I bought it for a good price off the sale board here . Even tho “people” said they were problem guns that wouldn’t shoot well, I thought it was an interesting gun that might make a good hog killer . I figured that if I could get 2-3 inch groups at 100, it would do . The first loads were tough to put together. The bullet market had dropped out and I couldn’t find any .310 bullets. I had a ton of 308 Sierra 125s and the Internet said they would work so I tried them. I found a load that printed 3-4” at a hundred and figured that was the best I was going to get. I loaded up a hundred rounds for the ammo shelf.
Some time passed and I searched for .310 bullets again. I just couldn’t stop thinking that I wasn’t getting good pressures from the .308 bullets. Grafs had some “seconds” for a good price so I bought some to try. I loaded up some test rounds and hit the range.
Last Friday, at 34-38 degrees, I shot these targets. Just loaded for magazine length. Every load fed and ejected just fine. I see a little progress there.

 

[snert]

FWIW I developed a pet load for an Ultra rifle.

It was a full case of varget, a fed match primer and a 40 grain Vmax. My reloading room is all packed away for a remodel or I would give you the exact details.

Any bullet heavier shot like crap. It did double group, but it would shoot three in a cloverleaf, two in another, 1/2 inch apart.

 

[chop house]

Any bullet heavier shot like crap. It did double group, but it would shoot three in a cloverleaf, two in another, 1/2 inch apart.

i have found the same with my cva hunters. i started arbitrarily limiting pressures to about 45k and it became 'usable'. i never could nail down if it was the lockup, or the bench technique needed to reset on the bags after loading. glad i am not alone. misery and company, and all that...

 

[FNSafari]

Contact windham. They may have some suggestions to improve things.

Have you tried good commercial factory ammo?

 

[joshb]

Contact windham. They may have some suggestions to improve things.

Have you tried good commercial factory ammo?

A couple of those groups are an inch. I’m not a great shooter , especially with AR type rifles. Getting an inch group out of this gun is better than I had hoped. I might drop a Gisselle trigger in it as the factory trigger sucks but it’s an acceptable hunting gun as it is, with the right load.
My message to Wolfdog is to try as best you can but accepting the limits of what a cheap gun can do is fine. Use it for what it is, be happy and move on.

 

[FNSafari]

Agree 100%. A Gisselle trigger won't make the rifle more accurate but will let you shoot more accurately. I think things like the pin holding the upper to the lower and the lock up area are two areas that might be explored to make the rifle more accurate. Just a thought but worth looking into. In the end, after you do your best to find the right bullet and load and seating depth(consistent with OAL limits of the magazine) and whatever else you can find to do, you need to keep the rifle within its accuracy limits based on what you are shooting at and the distances you plan on shooting at. --Greg

 

[joshb]

Good advice. Noted.

 

[Wolfdog91]

Ah, who said the only interesting rifle is an accurate rifle Actually 1-1.5" groups from a break top action isn't too shabby. Ya just need to match it to the hunting critters you may be going after...as in a bit bigger quarry.

Well I guess you have to identify what's accurate to each person. Not sure what critter I hunt that I'd realistically need a 1/4" shooting gun for when I really think about it....at least in the way I hunt right now. Don't get me wrong , I'd be ticked pink with a gun that shot in the 0's but I mean the kill zone on most animals is pretty big even those super special "kill switch shots" are usually less then 3".
I mean I still feel you should strive for the best you can. And the guys I see at the range shooting a 6" group @ 100yd and calling it good for the deer woods make me cringe....but..... I think we all need to ask at what point is it really good ? Mabye if I was going after prairie dogs out to 600yd it would be a problem but ..... Hmmm and I'm rambling again

 

[Wolfdog91]

FWIW I developed a pet load for an Ultra rifle.

It was a full case of varget, a fed match primer and a 40 grain Vmax. My reloading room is all packed away for a remodel or I would give you the exact details.

Any bullet heavier shot like crap. It did double group, but it would shoot three in a cloverleaf, two in another, 1/2 inch apart.

Have you seen it do that group slipping consistently? I've noticed mine does it a lot. And I've had other mention their prone to doing it to the point many feel 2shot groups are the handi way

 

[snert]

Yes, it did it so much during load development that I just came to accept it. But even so, once I got the magic load, it didn't matter, because both groups were still under 1/2 inch. (Very annoying to a guy who shoots expensive rifles that only shoot 1/2 inch!)