Project S-Match (from the mid 1800’s until now are we all just expecting way too much from our beloved 22 Long Rifle)

[Iowa Fox]

Have a link to some of that ring lube?
Or how to make my own?

Thx
Jim

I'd like to try some or make some also.

 

[Hozzie]

We may not have perfect ammo, but the day I have to start loading my own rimfire ammo for a match is the day I quit. There are very few guys shooting rimfire BR who are going to do that in my opinion.

It's one thing to load and shoot 20 rounds in a CF BR match (no idea how many they actually shoot as I don't shoot CF BR), but when we are shooting 50 rounds a card for 6 cards, no way most are doing that.

I am not saying it's not something to pursue if that is your thing, but it would require a new game and as bad as the ammo hunt can be, I just don't see enough demand to make custom rimfire ammo a sustainable endeavor from a match perspective.

 

[linekin]

We may not have perfect ammo, but the day I have to start loading my own rimfire ammo for a match is the day I quit. There are very few guys shooting rimfire BR who are going to do that in my opinion.

It's one thing to load and shoot 20 rounds in a CF BR match (no idea how many they actually shoot as I don't shoot CF BR), but when we are shooting 50 rounds a card for 6 cards, no way most are doing that.

I am not saying it's not something to pursue if that is your thing, but it would require a new game and as bad as the ammo hunt can be, I just don't see enough demand to make custom rimfire ammo a sustainable endeavor from a match perspective.

Jamie, I shoot a little cfbr(IBS score) & figure on about 60 rds a match. 25 for score & sighters of course.
Agree with you on not being appealing to me to reload for rfbr but...on the other hand if one could actually eliminate lot testing altogether by making perfect ammo for THEIR rifle, was getting beat by others doing it, & was comparative in cost I can see people trying it.
That would be a heck of alot of work seeing as on a 6 card match I'd need to load 300rds +/-
nah.... not for me either now that I think about it.
Keith

 

[PNW Skipper]

I'm with Hozzie & Linekin on the view not being worth the climb. If you really want to "roll your own," you can do it now with monolithic copper bullets and primed cases available from Cutting Edge Bullets here: https://cuttingedgebullets.com/shop/cutting-edge-bullets-product-lines/curx-22lr#
Once set up with their die set and an upgraded powder scale, it will run about 50 cents a round, plus powder, for 32 grain rounds you can stabilize in a standard twist barrel. For their heavier bullets you will have to invest in a faster twist barrel.

Of course, your ammo won't be legal for competition. It could be suitable for playing with for ELR or for further experiments in how to optimize .22lr ammo. IDK if these could be used with conventional lead bullets but that might potentially allow isolating the relative effects of variability in primed cases, powder load, crimp, engraving, and bullets. Many similar insights could be developed even if only the CURX bullets were mandatory.

 

[Bob3700]

In this parallel universe where now the RFBR game requires perfect/ hand loaded ammo, what is the cost to the competitor? Are u not then evolving into a money game? Those individuals with deep pockets ( assume shooting ability) will be the ones always in the winners circle. Competitors in all the various disciplines take about “ Buying points”, is this hand made rimfire benchrest ammo pushing the game in that direction?

 

[VLNBYR]

In this parallel universe where now the RFBR game requires perfect/ hand loaded ammo, what is the cost to the competitor? Are u not then evolving into a money game? Those individuals with deep pockets ( assume shooting ability) will be the ones always in the winners circle. Competitors in all the various disciplines take about “ Buying points”, is this hand made rimfire benchrest ammo pushing the game in that direction?

Nope and Nope. It's just the losers whining about losing because the other guy has better ammo.

 

[High Noon]

…..not so fast! Loading our ammo in the past ( Frank Tirrell & I ) and now moving forward I’m referring to loading ammo for ultimate product development and testing. My goal starting this thread has always been for real factory match ammo totally from the ground up and I don’t really care where it’s manufactured whether it’s by the large commercial companies or small start up precision loading companies as long as it’s available to everyone!

Now if we can just get Elon Musk shooting rimfire benchrest we’d be well on our way to ULTIMATE MATCH AMMO…

 

[Bob3700]

Nope and Nope. It's just the losers whining about losing because the other guy has better ammo.

That still makes it a money game. I test more lots of ammo n can purchase large quantity of what shoots small groups in my gun. Cases of quality RF ammo are not cheap. This assumes I have the “ Ability” to shoot those small groups.

 

[Hozzie]

That still makes it a money game. I test more lots of ammo n can purchase large quantity of what shoots small groups in my gun. Cases of quality RF ammo are not cheap. This assumes I have the “ Ability” to shoot those small groups.

It’s already a money game in some sense, just like most every other competitive game out there. It’s not the reason people lose, it’s the excuse.

 

[VLNBYR]

That still makes it a money game. I test more lots of ammo n can purchase large quantity of what shoots small groups in my gun. Cases of quality RF ammo are not cheap. This assumes I have the “ Ability” to shoot those small groups.

Try bass fishing, trap shooting, racing cars, etc. Rimfire br is a peanuts game money wise, we spend pennies where others spend dollars.

 

[grauhanen]

In this parallel universe where now the RFBR game requires perfect/ hand loaded ammo, what is the cost to the competitor? Are u not then evolving into a money game? Those individuals with deep pockets ( assume shooting ability) will be the ones always in the winners circle. Competitors in all the various disciplines take about “ Buying points”, is this hand made rimfire benchrest ammo pushing the game in that direction?

Don't worry about hand loaded .22LR Cutting Edge ammo referred to above. Even if its use was permitted in RFBR, it's not good enough to be anything near competitive with average shooting Lapua or Eley. It's likely to remain uncompetitive with currently available supplies of casings and hand loading systems.

 

[Bob3700]

Try bass fishing, trap shooting, racing cars, etc. Rimfire br is a peanuts game money wise, we spend pennies where others spend dollars.

10-4 on the shooting game being peanuts, money wise. Your examples of "thousands of dollars money pits" is right on.

 

[Gabe22BR]

Don't worry about hand loaded .22LR Cutting Edge ammo referred to above. Even if its use was permitted in RFBR, it's not good enough to be anything near competitive with average shooting Lapua or Eley. It's likely to remain uncompetitive with currently available supplies of casings and hand loading systems.

Don’t worry about the guys breaking that “factory” down, and reloading it…

 

[VLNBYR]

I started shooting ARA in 2012 and that year and for the next several years if you agged 2200 for the year you would be a solid top 10 or even top 5 in the USA. Around 2018 and 2019 the aggs started getting better. In 2020 a 2200 agg wouldn't get you in the top 10 and in 2021 you would have barely made the top 20. This past year a 2200 agg would have made you #22 in the USA. And this with the ammo from hell?????

 

[VLNBYR]

Our ammo is what it is, it's a part of the game, always has been and always will be. Fantasy and wishful thinking get you nowhere in the real world of competition. Show Up & Shoot.