another reason to anneal

[RegionRat]

it is obvious to me now that this is not understood/not as big of an issue as i once thought it was, because it seems many people are getting away with it with no severely ill effects.

but if Lou says you should, this tells me that people may be possibly leaving some untapped precision on the table that they did not consider/know about???

Yes and no.
I don't think there is much concern over the diameter of the fired case since it doesn't tell us much about bullet release.
Keep in mind, at 50k - 65k PSI, that brass will definitely be feeling the peak pressure, but by then the bullet is typically beyond the grip of what we are calling neck tension.

What we would all agree on, is that brass prep and neck tension in general are important to precision and accuracy folks. What happens to the brass after the bullet is launched is not part of the correlation.

So paying attention to concepts like neck diameter, free bore, bullet jump, brass prep, neck tension, etc. are all worth the trouble, but the final diameter of a fired case neck is not an agreed upon part of the story.

 

[jghoghunter]

the final diameter of a fired case neck is not an agreed upon part of the story.

I believe there will be a lot of people that will have to agree to disagree.

 

[D-4297]

it was MY understanding that if your bullet does not fall inside a fired piece of brass that you do not have proper neck clearance in the chamber

A standard "NO TURN" neck has ample clearance diametrically . This is ; unless all of these 2013 FTR Reamers are being made incorrectly . I do anneal after every firing , as stated earlier , and use the bushing necessary to move the neck only a minimum amount of closure , to .307 , followed by a carbide .3075 expander mandrill . Maybe the fact that I'm not moving the brass a excessive amount in the Dies has something to do with my over-all results . I'm currently running around 27 to 29 reloads on my practice brass , so I'm satisfied with what's going on . It is sometimes easy to over-think something that isn't relevant to a good scoring practice . Tens win . X's count .

 

[Benchrest Braxton]

A standard "NO TURN" neck has ample clearance diametrically . This is ; unless all of these 2013 FTR Reamers are being made incorrectly . I do anneal after every firing , as stated earlier , and use the bushing necessary to move the neck only a minimum amount of closure , to .307 , followed by a carbide .3075 expander mandrill . Maybe the fact that I'm not moving the brass a excessive amount in the Dies has something to do with my over-all results . I'm currently running around 27 to 29 reloads on my practice brass , so I'm satisfied with what's going on . It is sometimes easy to over-think something that isn't relevant to a good scoring practice . Tens win . X's count .

what is your loaded neck diameter, what is your neck diameter on the reamer print? are you annealing flame? amp?

maybe as a test you could turn some pieces thinner to get your fired brass to open up more, so a bullet falls in.

see if it gives better results?

even if it gave you one more x per relay, or one less flyer, you would agree it could be worth to try it if you never have?

 

[D-4297]

what is your loaded neck diameter, what is your neck diameter on the reamer print? are you annealing flame? amp?

maybe as a test you could turn some pieces thinner to get your fired brass to open up more, so a bullet falls in.

see if it gives better results?

even if it gave you one more x per relay, or one less flyer, you would agree it could be worth to try it if you never have?

Loaded Neck Diameter is .336 ....Chamber finished Diameter is .342

I flame anneal with a single torch , Annealz . ....4 to 4 1/2 seconds .

I tried reaming necks ....Dropped Ten to Fifteen points on a twenty shot string .

I tried turning O.D. on neck . AGAIN ; Dropped points .

A group of better than average TR Shooters at Ben Avery played with all of this on No Turn necks doing all of the "suggested " items for nearly a year , and found no gain in score from ANY of these practices , other than using the practices I described earlier . that I currently use . They may be applicable and necessary when having a tighter neck , but showed no advantage when tried in a NO TURN neck chamber . But I could sure use all the bullets and powder & primers I wasted on this frivolity .

 

[Benchrest Braxton]

Loaded Neck Diameter is .336 ....Chamber finished Diameter is .342

I flame anneal with a single torch , Annealz . ....4 to 4 1/2 seconds .

I tried reaming necks ....Dropped Ten to Fifteen points on a twenty shot string .

I tried turning O.D. on neck . AGAIN ; Dropped points .

A group of better than average TR Shooters at Ben Avery played with all of this on No Turn necks doing all of the "suggested " items for nearly a year , and found no gain in score from ANY of these practices , other than using the practices I described earlier . that I currently use . They may be applicable and necessary when having a tighter neck , but showed no advantage when tried in a NO TURN neck chamber . But I could sure use all the bullets and powder & primers I wasted on this frivolity .

thanks for the input, obviously 6 thou should be plenty of clearance, so your bullets should drop in, but why aren’t they?

not getting annealed enough and needs more time in the flame?

my cheytac had 8 thou of clearance but wasn’t getting drop in til i annealed on the amp.

 

[D-4297]

I'm averaging 196 / 198 , 9 / 13X's at mid range . Have a couple of 200's in Comp . Finished second in Az, Mid Range TR to a gentleman shooting 200's both days , but I just really don't think my bullet not dropping into a fired case is the cause of my second place finish . More the loose nut behind the trigger . So I practice harder , and more often .

 

[rwj]

I believe there will be a lot of people that will have to agree to disagree.

I use less bullet/neck interference fit than the amount of radial clearance between the loaded round neck OD and chamber wall. That way one knows that the bullet can be freely released from the case. Whether another bullet can freely inserted into a fired case neck is not a concern…

 

[jghoghunter]

I use less bullet/neck interference fit than the amount of radial clearance between the loaded round neck OD and chamber wall. That way one knows that the bullet can be freely released from the case. Whether another bullet can freely inserted into a fired case neck is not a concern…

I believe there will be a lot of people that will have to agree to disagree.

Let's say it this way, there's more than one way to skin a cat.

 

[Dave M.]

the once fired bertram pieces did it too, so the hardness was purely from the 408-338 necking down ops.

Just out of curiosity, do you understand the mechanism for hardening of brass? Because necking down brass from 408 to 338 is a ton on work hardening.

 

[Benchrest Braxton]

Just out of curiosity, do you understand the mechanism for hardening of brass? Because necking down brass from 408 to 338 is a ton on work hardening.

yes hence why I thought to try and anneal them, which resolved my issue

 

[Benchrest Braxton]

Just out of curiosity, do you understand the mechanism for hardening of brass? Because necking down brass from 408 to 338 is a ton on work hardening.

also in my defense, im slightly new-ish to delving into these minute details with guns. I just thought that despite being pretty work hardened, that 8 thou of clearance should have been enough to blow the neck out and not spring back to grip the bullet.