Making ball powders shoot well

[Coyotefurharvester]

I use ball powder for hunting, 17 Rem- 338 wm. The 338 was/is H380 and 200 gr bullets.

 

[Dimner]

I have over 16lbs of ramshot hunter and 16lbs of shooters world match rifle that I bought for larger cases. 30-06, 270, 7x57, 8x57 and with those cases they all have been trouble to work with. Large velocity swings and only decent accuracy. Stick powders just do better. I do use quickload and always try and use the closest fill percentage to 98% along with the best powder burn efficiency.

I have used the match rifle in 223/556 and the swings are still there, but accuracy is a bit better.

All this holds true to my experiences with AA2200, H335 and BLC-2. In fact I usually skip any AA/western powders because many of their products are ball powder. Like others have mentioned, the ghosting of Alliant powders have really put a hurt on my reloading.

However, I have not tried playing with neck tension. Just seems like it shouldn't be this hard to get a ball powder to work. I think they bottom line is when you get a ball powder to work, they work well, and then you can easily make hundreds of rounds. But until you find that load, it's a headache. Me, I'll just keep using stick powders and be okay if it's a little less velocity than the average load for that cartridge. I'd rather have the velocity act more consistent.

 

[Dimner]

Also.. let me ask this. For those of you who keep using ball powders, how many of you are using a chronograph?

 

[David Milisock]

Also.. let me ask this. For those of you who keep using ball powders, how many of you are using a chronograph?

Yes for 30 years.

 

[Gary in MD]

Chronograph? Yes
30-06 - 62.5 grains of StaBall6.5 & 150 grain ballistic tip gave 3060 fps and very good accuracy.
Tikka 8 twist 22-250 - 40.5 grains of StaBall6.5 & 65 grain Sierra spbt gave 3350 fps and good accuracy.

 

[Gary in MD]

And I wasn’t trying to imply that I only shoot the ball powders….. You got to be well rounded! LOL

 

[msilbernagel]

Also.. let me ask this. For those of you who keep using ball powders, how many of you are using a chronograph?

Magnetospeed.. great load development tool.

 

[JSH]

H335 and 748, a wheel barrow full of each at least. Over 30 pounds of TAC, down to my last two pounds. Given away as door prize at a match years ago, everyone thought it was funny when the put it all in my truck. There was zero load data at the time, a phone call got me a copy of their lab work ups back then.
AA#9 and a few lots of WC820. The 820 was purchased in 32 lb lots, some shot like AA9, some closer to 2400. H110/296, at least a wheel barrow full there too.

H335 is temp sensitive I have been told. Maybe my loads are soft or I have been lucky over the years, never had a pressure issue. Accuracy trumps speed.

 

[Turpentine]

My problem with ball powder is I can work up a load with it that will be pretty accurate. But it’s day to day. I seem to get more fliers and more variation in speed. I regularly run a chronograph. For hunting inside 300-400 yards or so you won’t know the difference. You also have to be more careful if you work loads up in cooler weather and then shoot them in summer. I’ve run into trouble with that. There are some stick powders that get weird when it’s hot too. I don’t live where it’s cold enough to run into low temp issues.

 

[Wolfdog91]

My problem with ball powder is I can work up a load with it that will be pretty accurate. But it’s day to day. I seem to get more fliers and more variation in speed. I regularly run a chronograph. For hunting inside 300-400 yards or so you won’t know the difference. You also have to be more careful if you work loads up in cooler weather and then shoot them in summer. I’ve run into trouble with that. There are some stick powders that get weird when it’s hot too. I don’t live where it’s cold enough to run into low temp issues.

See this is one of my big problems, the temp stability thing. Mississippi is so dang bipolar I really need a powder to be as temp stable as possible. Because it's not uncommon at all for me to be bundled up Monday sailing with 20° cold then be in shorts and having a great time by Friday when it's 70°
Not to mention our almost constant high humidity

 

[WyleWD]

Also.. let me ask this. For those of you who keep using ball powders, how many of you are using a chronograph?

After I do load development and see the group sizes I'm after, then at some point I'll run a few over the Chrony just to see where it is. I use ball powders in hunting rifles.... 17Rem, 220Swift, 243, 6xc, and 30-06. Mostly WW760. WD

 

[Dimner]

See this is one of my big problems, the temp stability thing. Mississippi is so dang bipolar I really need a powder to be as temp stable as possible. Because it's not uncommon at all for me to be bundled up Monday sailing with 20° cold then be in shorts and having a great time by Friday when it's 70°
Not to mention our almost constant high humidity

We have the same thing in Michigan and a saying that goes with it. "If you don't like the weather, wait a day"

But atleast during deer season I can rely on it being atleast 15-40*. I generally stop doing major load dev after June, just doesn't make sense to waste components when results all change on oct 1. Most of my load dev is for hunting though. It's funny how much time I spend making those loads for the 15-25 days that I can hunt in the fall.

 

[Turpentine]

See this is one of my big problems, the temp stability thing. Mississippi is so dang bipolar I really need a powder to be as temp stable as possible. Because it's not uncommon at all for me to be bundled up Monday sailing with 20° cold then be in shorts and having a great time by Friday when it's 70°
Not to mention our almost constant high humidity

Same here. Our weather swings are crazy. Insulated coveralls one week, flip flops the next. I do a lot of depredation stuff in June and July. There is one thing you can count on then. Hot temps and humidity you could swim in. Some powders tend to get a bit squirrely.
With ARs you also need to be concerned with port pressure and cycling so you factor that info into powder choice as well. Some fall off to where cycling can be a problem. While others can get hot enough that they aren’t very gun or brass friendly. This doesn’t just pertain to ball powder but powder in general.

 

[cmcq]

So I've never had good luck with anything other then stick powders. However I've always get told theirs a lot of people getting great results with various ball powders. So in general, what are some tips or must do's to get the best out of a ball powder ?
Thanks

I’ve had good luck in 223 with CFE223. Excellent results with the 69/77smk.

 

[David Milisock]

See this is one of my big problems, the temp stability thing. Mississippi is so dang bipolar I really need a powder to be as temp stable as possible. Because it's not uncommon at all for me to be bundled up Monday sailing with 20° cold then be in shorts and having a great time by Friday when it's 70°
Not to mention our almost constant high humidity

In my opinion, you're worrying too much, ammo manufacturers make ammo the we used in artic conditions and the same ammo again in the jungle.

The only stipulation would be ball, powder in auto-loaders in cold weather. Cold weather causes issues with lubricants to start with, add to that a gummy residue from ball powders and it can be a mess. After an engagement you need to wipe your rifle down and hopefully within a few days or a week get an opportunity to properly clean. The dry lubricants will not be able to be wiped away completely which is good and produce mothing to gather the gunk.

I work loads in the summer, use them in all seasons and I've moved all my auto-loaders to dry lubricants, there has been good developmentsin them the last decade or so. I keep my firearms under a parka in foul weather, protect the muzzle and wipe them down regularly when in the field.

 

[Loudenboomer]

Don't waste your time on ball powder? Really? Ball powder has many great applications. 5.56 and 7.62 high volume loading is made much more consistent. If you can't find a ball powder to work with with these. You're most likely doing something wrong.
I can usually chronograph more consistent velocities with stick powders. That being said.
With supply problems the way they are sometimes we substitute improvise and adapt. I'd rather shoot Reloader 33 or Retumbo in my .338 Lapua but I'll burn up a lot of LRT and WC 860 before I'd quit shooting.

 

[Turpentine]

It’s getting harder and harder to shoot what you want these days. It’s more about what you can find.
On multiple occasions I have seen factory ammo seize in the chamber and require a cleaning rod or a mallet to open the bolt or clear the brass. In clean chambers. Or find a popped primer. Remove the stuck brass, switch brands or lot numbers and have no further issues whatsoever. I’ve seen it in multiple rifles. I won’t mention brand names of ammunition but suffice it to say they are quite popular.
Ive also run a chrono on some popular factory loads in the same barrel length that was used for velocity testing and seen very large variation in the numbers And large variation from shot to shot.
Neither of these was necessarily a ball powder issue. But a powder issue in general. Plus the individual tube plays a part. The average hunter in my area where 200 yards is a long shot will not know the difference. But one that stretches their range will.

So yes factories, right along with us can make loads that will work in the extremes. They will go “bang” and projectiles come out of the barrel but are they optimal for your set of circumstances? As Reloaders we can take steps and make choices that insure our ammunition is optimal for the conditions if we choose to do so. Those choices lend themselves to reliable gun function as well as to the guns longevity. Especially, when it comes to autoloaders but bolt guns are not excluded.

Some of my ammo just needs to go bang and hit a silhouette or put a hole in a paper target or armadillo up close. As long as it’s safe and it functions It’s fine. Other loads for precision kick my ocd into play but that’s ok too. I do my best to turn out my best and eliminate variables. This also plays into ones confidence. I’d like to think I can shoot the difference but sometimes I have my doubts. But I can clearly see a difference in my load quality when I pass 600 and at 1000 it’s very evident.