Making ball powders shoot well

[Gargoyle]

I've given up on ball powders. They can't be worth all the trouble it takes to get them to shoot better than extruded, and IME, I have never had a ball powder even meet the accuracy of extruded, much less beat it.

What cartridges are you shooting?

 

[Bronsin]

What cartridges are you shooting?

Mainly in the .223.

 

[Dimner]

So I've never had good luck with anything other then stick powders. However I've always get told theirs a lot of people getting great results with various ball powders. So in general, what are some tips or must do's to get the best out of a ball powder ?
Thanks

I'm with you on this one. Sometimes I can get good results on the targets, hunting accuracy, but I have never been able to get ES or SD to anywhere near good. Commonly I get 30+fps extreme spreads. However, stick powders are great and I can get single digit SDs

 

[Ray123]

I use a bunch of ball powders, and find some to be very accurate...I went down the list of 177 powders and have used 44 ball powders on that modern list in tbe Hornady manual...plus some oldies no longer made like 452AA ,473AA W630, H870, plus a few I don't recall. Walt Berger used his 52 gr Match bullets and H335 to set a few records won some matches back in the day... for about 25 yrs. Alot of guys were using ball powders in the 222 in those days and so was I,.. W 748 & H335, ...my speed load in the 6 Dasher is Ball, 6ARC it's Ball, 308 speed demons are Ball powders, 50BMG alot of Ball... to go along with the Stick...

 

[Jager]

I've never been convinced that ball powders are inherently less accurate than their extruded, single-base cousins, at least in small-to-moderate case capacities. Theoretically, they might even have an advantage in that their double-base composition is more resistant to hygroscopic moisture variation than single-base powders.

And we now know that the moisture content of our powder matters.

But obtaining good, consistent ignition is critical with ball powders, as their physical shape provides less surface area than does a comparable charge of an extruded powder. Ergo the frequent advice to use magnum primers. But even that's not always necessary - many of us use SP primers in .22 Hornet because their lesser brisance is often more suited to that very small case.

The other area where ball powders differ from extruded powders is how they compress. You can compress ball powders, but not to the same degree that you can with extruded.

W296/H110 is my favored powder in .22 Hornet and .300 Blackout, not to mention high-pressure revolver loads like .357 Mag and .44 Mag.

 

[otnot]

I shoot quite a bit of .223 with 90 gr. bullets at long distances. I was having trouble getting the velocity I wanted with stick powders due to the case volume. And if I did manage to cram enough powder into the case I would start to puncture primers. So I tried CFE223 and kept upping the charge until I got the velocity I wanted (2800 fps). I'm getting good case fill and no pressure signs and the only draw back is it burns kinda of dirty which might be because I'm using 400 primers.

 

[Zero333]

I'm another W-748 nut for my 223r and 308win.
W-760 / H-414 also works god for me in my 7mm-08r.

Edit: I should mention I use W-748 mainly for semi-auto use because it meters so nicely through my Dillon XL-650. I do use it in my R-700 223r and I dispense it through my Chargemaster 1500 for that purpose since I only load like 100 at a time, unlike for gas guns I load hundreds at a time.

 

[David Milisock]

Not always true. Most if not all Reloder powders and H-100V are extruded double base

I learned something new, unfortunately I can't find something from Alliant that lists all the base content. All I get are discussions about penta based powders which most are. I like LilGun at 40,000 PSI I believe it uses a urea based chemical called (I think) arkilite, to control burning. It smell like cat piss but it run cooler in self loaders. Now I must find it.

It's arkadite! That made me crazy! .

 

[David Milisock]

I shoot quite a bit of .223 with 90 gr. bullets at long distances. I was having trouble getting the velocity I wanted with stick powders due to the case volume. And if I did manage to cram enough powder into the case I would start to puncture primers. So I tried CFE223 and kept upping the charge until I got the velocity I wanted (2800 fps). I'm getting good case fill and no pressure signs and the only draw back is it burns kinda of dirty which might be because I'm using 400 primers.

You can try reworking you load with different magnum primers but ball powders are gunky in my experiance. In myn30 Carbines it works so well that I moved to dry lubricants to obtain longer shot string functionality in cold weather.

 

[David Milisock]

I've never been convinced that ball powders are inherently less accurate than their extruded, single-base cousins, at least in small-to-moderate case capacities. Theoretically, they might even have an advantage in that their double-base composition is more resistant to hygroscopic moisture variation than single-base powders.

And we now know that the moisture content of our powder matters.

But obtaining good, consistent ignition is critical with ball powders, as their physical shape provides less surface area than does a comparable charge of an extruded powder. Ergo the frequent advice to use magnum primers. But even that's not always necessary - many of us use SP primers in .22 Hornet because their lesser brisance is often more suited to that very small case.

The other area where ball powders differ from extruded powders is how they compress. You can compress ball powders, but not to the same degree that you can with extruded.

W296/H110 is my favored powder in .22 Hornet and .300 Blackout, not to mention high-pressure revolver loads like .357 Mag and .44 Mag.

I agree, all my successful ball loads fill the case and are just filled or very minimally compressed.

 

[K22]

In my experience, ball powder can produce very accurate reloads. My experience has been with H335 in the 223 Rem, and H380 in the 22 250 and some with BLC2 in the 222.

However, I found it to be very sensitive to small changes in charge and more temperamental to temperature variation than stick powder. I had trouble maintaining consistent performance accuracy wise.

I've been able to develop just as accurate reloads with stick powders without the problems associated with ball powders.

If you're only a target shooter and like ball powders because of their ability to meter uniformly, I imagine you can deal with the variations associated with ball powders however, I personally would not use it for hunting reloads.

I stopped using ball powders in rifle cartridges about 25 years or so ago.

 

[ncageneral]

I load for various chamberings, from 223 to 280 Rem, I've had good luck with ball powders in 223/5.56, no luck at all in anything else. I use alot of the Alliant powders that seem to have fallen off the face of the earth, and Varget, H100V, I hope I have enough rat holed to make it through the continuing drought.

 

[David Milisock]

Funny how the world works! Idk I've just come to the idea that some things just don't work for some people lol!

I like ball powders where they work and where they work they have worked better for me than extruded powders. For example, short barreled 06 loads I seem to do well, (21"-23"), with higher velocities, not that they don't do well with 26" barrels, they do, but they have always been better than extruded powders in short barrels.

In 30 Carbine I get great cold weather reliability, 100 FPS more with zero pressure issues and consistent extraction. In 45 ACP I get 1,050 FPS with 230 grain XTP and no pressure issues, that's 45 Super velocities, (beware, only for 45 pistols that fully encase the cartridge head). The 357 Sig can achieve full power European loads as designed, producing 1,500 FPS with 124 grain XTP, I run at 1,450 FPS. American 357 Sig ammo is awful. In my Glock 31 an absolutely fantastic CQB handgun combination.

My 06's in 03 and model 17, Remingtons with 24" barrels both can achieve over 3,100 FPS with 165 grain Hornady interlock and nearly 3,000 with the 180 grain interlock. That's factory 300 Winchester magnum velocities with zero pressure issues.

Now the accuracy considerations are not bench rest but these rifles are hunting rifles they produce at 100 yards 2 shots that touch and a third shot that spreads the group to about 1" from a cold barrel. With these rifles I've never needed a second shot, I know that today the big deal is 5 shot groups but in my opinion if I had to shoot at something 5 times tgat didn't shoot back I would rethink my processes.

 

[Liven The Dream]

2 cents AR .223 Target Rifles Custom Built .
748 at 300 yards Clean the Target all day .
322 200 yards clean all day .

 

[David Milisock]

Just information, Hodgen LilGun is a great magnum handgun ball powder and it works well in rifles that operate in the traditional magnum handgun pressure range around 44,000 PSI max. However there have been problems using it above 55,000 PSI as the flame temperature seems to change at higher pressures gauling the parts of revolvers.

 

[David Milisock]

2 cents AR .223 Target Rifles Custom Built .
748 at 300 yards Clean the Target all day .
322 200 yards clean all day .

I had zero luck in my A2 with 322. Varget, 748 work well.

 

[Liven The Dream]

I had zero luck in my A2 with 322. Varget, 748 work well.

Combination of Barrel Twist Camber Brass Primmer etc.

 

[David Milisock]

Combination of Barrel Twist Camber Brass Primmer etc.

My A2 is a 1 in 7, with 748 or Varget it shoots 69's great.

 

[dc.fireman]

Mainly in the .223.

When the recent powder shortage hit, I had to find a replacement for my service rifle loads, which used mainly H-4895. A local shop started carrying Alliant Power Pro Varmint - a ball powder. I bought 1lb. to try out, and it turns out that 24.2gr. under a 77 gr. HPBT with a Rem 7.5 primer is another great load for .223. Give it a try if you see it - you might be surprised how well it works.

 

[Gary in MD]

Loads with ball powders almost always perform better with maximum or near maximum loads. The loads burn much cleaner and are more uniform that way.
Also, as already suggested, they sometimes perform much better with magnum primers.
I’ve used H380 and WW760 (22-250) in the past with excellent accuracy. TAC with the 223AI.
StaBall6.5 is working very well right now for me in a 8 twist 22-250 and also a 30-06 with 150 grain bullets. Mostly talking about varmint and hunting rifles here.
Gary