Let's Talk about Working Rifles

[M-61]

Below is my concept of a guide gun, a custom built dangerous game rifle in 450 Marlin, custom cut for 500 grain 60,000 PSI loads. It's been built on a Chilean 98 Mauser by the Rifler, it has a 22" Shilen air gauge barrel, the magazine follower has not been milled, a dangerous game rifle needs to tell you when it's empty. The trigger is the military 2 stage with a nice crisp break.

The semi-buckhorn sight is ERA as is the front sight, the stock a Ram Line, weighted to 9 3/4 pounds. The controlled feed works well on all my Mausers and Reminton 03 rifles, I prefer it for dangerous game work. As you can see it is a big bore and the 500 grain loads will not chamber in the lower pressure level lever rifles and with the 450 Marlin belt they will not chamber in any other Magnum. It produces about 4,500 ft/lbs of energy with the 500 grain at 2,000 + FPS. View attachment 1390229View attachment 1390230View attachment 1390231

The Rifler does some beautiful work!

 

[mongo chicago]

Long range Ruger #1 in 6mm Remington set up for 105gr. Medium range Ruger #1 in 6XC set up for 87gr. Short range Anschutz in 22 Mag. This is / was my prairie dog set up.

 

[JFrank]

I like a good old 30-30 more times than not, I think the boys had seven out of the last ten white tails taken with their lever guns.

 

[David Milisock]

The Rifler does some beautiful work!

On my build I did alot of thinking and then anticipated spending a summer working loads and shooting.

Mike built the rifle and it took only two weeks to work loads. I get 1 big ragged hole in paper at 50 and 100 yards. That's awesome for a 45 caliber dangerous game rifle.

It cycles perfectly even if I lay on my back and work the bolt really slowly, that's amazing work with a belted case like the 450 Marlin. The military trigger is two stage but breaks like a glass rod, perfect in my opinion.

Whether I'm going after Kodiak bear or backup gunner guiding I trust that rifle with my life. That makes it beautiful to me!

 

[David Milisock]

I like a good old 30-30 more times than not, I think the boys had seven out of the last ten white tails taken with their lever guns.

Hard to argue with a formula that has worked since 1895. You have a nice setup for the truck.
BTW my son saw your rig and wondered why he hasn't gotten one.

 

[David Milisock]

For me, there’s really only one signature feature of rifles that define the period I came of age within.

I don’t even know if this feature has a particular name or not, but to me it is indispensable.


View attachment 1390576

This grip, bent in the same exact place, of this same dimension, whether it’s made by Manners or McMillan, tactical or F-Class or hunting, will always have my loyalty. To me, this “handle” means business.

I have tried to love the competing grip design of the H&S Precision stock, and I still prefer it to the feel of the metallic stocks, but it’s a distant second place.

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I still wrestle with the decision of using specialized, impractical rifles in competition. But my favorite form of competition has a fixed, known distance target and we simply don’t have to move the point of aim very much, and certainly don’t track a moving target.

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However, I would much rather have a truly competent, versatile gun, if there could only be one.

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This gun is a 22 pound 338 LM single shot, with a scope reticle and mount system that would permit its use in ELR to the maximum range of the cartridge.

With a fast twist 1.5” tapered Krieger 5R barrel, it does not leave any accuracy on the table, and the cartridge itself, is just so good in so many ways, probably it’s Lapua’s proudest achievement, of many.

I agree with the rifle fitting the shooter, not just length of pull but everywhere. My 8MM and my 450 both come to bear on point and swing like skeet guns. The grip really needs to fit your hand. I'm lucky with my grip fitting such an inexpensive and durable stock, you do need to keep the bedding in mind. I wish there could be a magic rifle/cartridge but I' a realist.

As far as competition rifles as long as you leave them on the bench you serve yourself well, but the cartridge designs that come from that work serves all, of us well.

 

[M-61]

On my build I did alot of thinking and then anticipated spending a summer working loads and shooting.

Mike built the rifle and it took only two weeks to work loads. I get 1 big ragged hole in paper at 50 and 100 yards. That's awesome for a 45 caliber dangerous game rifle.

It cycles perfectly even if I lay on my back and work the bolt really slowly, that's amazing work with a belted case like the 450 Marlin. The military trigger is two stage but breaks like a glass rod, perfect in my opinion.

Whether I'm going after Kodiak bear or backup gunner guiding I trust that rifle with my life. That makes it beautiful to me!

Probably the interesting thing about Mike is the ease at which you can talk to him, coupled with his ability to figure out what you were asking no matter how convoluted my questions were. That’s my experience. Superb craftsmanship.

 

[shoot4fun]

While I own and shoot many different rifles on a regular basis I consider none of them to be "working rifles".
Sure, they all work (operate) but the only time I ever had what could be considered "working rifles" was when I was employed in the firearms industry. Those were demo guns and they got abused regularly.
I am fully retired now and my firearms are for anything but work. Hunting is work? Well, maybe if you are paid to do it. Prairie dog shooting is work? HAH! NEVER!!!!
Protection and self-defense work? For our brave troops or law enforcement it absolutely is and I thank them for that.
My own EDC is responsibility but not work (though I do work at proficiency in the skills). It is work to keep those guns I rely on to protect me in working order.
Really, this thread seems to read like an article in a trite gun magazine.

 

[JFrank]

Hard to argue with a formula that has worked since 1895. You have a nice setup for the truck.

Yes Sir, during hunting season in Montana it seems almost everybody is packing something stuffed between the seats

 

[ryanjay11]

This has been my "working" rifle for several years:

 

[David Milisock]

While I own and shoot many different rifles on a regular basis I consider none of them to be "working rifles".
Sure, they all work (operate) but the only time I ever had what could be considered "working rifles" was when I was employed in the firearms industry. Those were demo guns and they got abused regularly.
I am fully retired now and my firearms are for anything but work. Hunting is work? Well, maybe if you are paid to do it. Prairie dog shooting is work? HAH! NEVER!!!!
Protection and self-defense work? For our brave troops or law enforcement it absolutely is and I thank them for that.
My own EDC is responsibility but not work (though I do work at proficiency in the skills). It is work to keep those guns I rely on to protect me in working order.
Really, this thread seems to read like an article in a trite gun magazine.

No, I'm looking at what people are using as a real world field working guns. Hoping to get an idea for a project to build for a field firearm that I don't have. You never know what's being done by some smart person somewhere, I always figured that thinking that I've seen it all was a dumb thing for me to do. I've seen good ideas here as well as trust in tried and true methods.

In my opinion you'd best serve yourself reading what these people post, while it may seem trite to you now, you may learn something.

I understand that you worked in the firearms industry but that's working with guns, not utilizing working guns. There are plenty of working men and women who have used or are still using firearms as a tool in their profession. There are millions of hunters who have guns that are not range toys, not modified for competition rendering them useless as working field guns, their guns see dusty, rainy, ice conditions, spend countless hours bounced around in vehicles or horseback, they must perform as well as the rifleman carrying them when needed.

Some people and their guns put food on the table, many varmint hunt, some engage in many different types of combat. I carried my first rifle for work at 12 years old working on game farms, I carried firearms professionally in the military, again as an adult as a guide. I've spent countless hours carrying my working gun while hunting, it was work, I needed meat and when you're faced with something that considers you meat you'll be glad you researched and built a good working gun. Maybe someone here can point me toward something to give me an edge?

 

[shoot4fun]

No, I'm looking at what people are using as a real world field working guns. Hoping to get an idea for a project to build for a field firearm that I don't have. You never know what's being done by some smart person somewhere, I always figured that thinking that I've seen it all was a dumb thing for me to do. I've seen good ideas here as well as trust in tried and true methods.

In my opinion you'd best serve yourself reading what these people post, while it may seem trite to you now, you may learn something.

I understand that you worked in the firearms industry but that's working with guns, not utilizing working guns. There are plenty of working men and women who have used or are still using firearms as a tool in their profession. There are millions of hunters who have guns that are not range toys, not modified for competition rendering them useless as working field guns, their guns see dusty, rainy, ice conditions, spend countless hours bounced around in vehicles or horseback, they must perform as well as the rifleman carrying them when needed.

Some people and their guns put food on the table, many varmint hunt, some engage in many different types of combat. I carried my first rifle for work at 12 years old working on game farms, I carried firearms professionally in the military, again as an adult as a guide. I've spent countless hours carrying my working gun while hunting, it was work, I needed meat and when you're faced with something that considers you meat you'll be glad you researched and built a good working gun. Maybe someone here can point me toward something to give me an edge?

My line of thought is that these rifles should be called purpose-built rifle instead of working rifle.
I have many rifles that are geared to times in the field, life in the truck or to protection of property or life.
My Remington Model 7 7mm-08 serves me perfectly. In my general hunting areas it can be put in play quickly, has the power and range for most all my whitetail hunts and is accurate. The rifle is short enough and light enough it's at home stalking or in the tightest of hunting blinds. I'm probably disappointing you though because I have owned the rifle 30 years and never made one single alteration to it.
I would list all those what you typify as "working guns" I own but why. Over the last 55 years of gun ownership I have listened and tried many things others swore were "sliced bread". Some I worked to implement in the industry, some were valid for me personally, and many just didn't work out for me. Smart is knowing what works for me and helps me be a better marksman. I classify everything else as "gimmick".

 

[David Milisock]

A working rifle? Depends on what the job at hand is...and my choice changes as does the job. Plinking, everything is on the table...hunting probably a bolt 338, or 350 Mag, with low power scope, cause I'm gonna shoot em up close and personal, and more often the game will be running away... but it could be anything over 30 cal including the 50BMG. The little calibers are for fun and target, I don't need 1/4" accuracy in a working gun...if moving around the gun should be on the lighter side. Then the AR comes into play, when the numbers increase. So to me a working rifle is a tool up to the task, but not necessarily newer or fancy, (old and beat up is okay)...with a ton of extras hanging on it and a 4 lb scope...it should have some versatility to it, in case "the work" suddenly changes...

I hear you, many of mine are based on 100-year-old designs, I have several because the work changes so the rifle has to change.

 

[David Milisock]

My work when it comes to field shooting killing hogs here mine. It's not super advanced but give me a hell of an edge over all these local yahoos with Mag lights and .22lrs.
Bear creek 7.62x39 upper
Fmk poly lower
Coyote reaper XXl IR
Atn X site all day night digital scope
Bog death grip aluminum tripod.
View attachment 1390661

It's not a 1/8" gun but I don't need it to be. It's not super sexy and and smooth but I don't need it to be. Will put every cheap HP or So 7.62x 39 I can find in a 2.5" group @100yd and honestly that's more then what you need for killing hogs . Especially if you give them a CNS shot inside of a boiler room.
I get made fun of somtimes by the more advanced guys in the night hunting groups but I can treat this rig like crap and it just keeps chugging along doing its job. Best part is I have less then $1000 all together in it
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Nice hog gun, to me the most advanced guy is the one with more game in the bag for less money! That rig is a good idea, 7.62 x 39 is plenty for hogs and more.

 

[David Milisock]

David I am sure you were talking about the Sauer's that dusty mentioned not my Ruger's. There is an easy way to keep a nice rifle from being dropped in the stream, Hold on to it. But i do understand what you are saying. i have a friend that may be the best friend I've ever had. He carries a Browning A5 and when he and another friend and ny daughter were buggy hunting in the WMA he could not find his Browning. He told us to drive back to where we had stopped to talk with guys on two other buggies. When we got to that place he mentioned, he shuffled around in the water for about a minute and a half and his boot found the browning in ankle deep water. He loaned it to a hunter on a horse and it came back with a broken stock, but not completely in two pieces. He still hunts with it 5 years later stock still broken. I've offered to replace stocks and gun coat it several times but he can't be without it that long. i don't like having my good guns around him. he would do anything for me and I for him, but he has a whole different mindset about equipment and how long it should last and be taken care of.

Sounds like my brother, his favorite is an old slide action Remington 06, it looks like he used it for a paddle for a canoe, but it has taken more game than most men have seen. I have never lost a rifle in the field, (yet) but I have banged the hell out of myself and a few good rifles.

 

[David Milisock]

Remington came out with a great version of a “Scout Rifle” back in the ‘60’s.

The Remington 600 in 350 Remington Magnum. Short action, light weight, hard hitting.

It seems not many cared.

I like the OP’s concept. A 100% reliable rifle originally designed to withstand the rigors of the outdoors In a caliber big enough to bring down anything at the range it will be used.

I almost built one of those and still think it's a good idea and just might.

 

[David Milisock]

Ruger No. 1 in .270. Leupold Vari-X III 1.5-5. Because, you know, one shot.

The gun that gets called on the most, though, is an Anschutz heavy barrel in .22 Hornet. Single-stage trigger and Leupold VX-II 6-18. It gets called upon around the house here often enough that it stays out of the gun cabinet, within easy reach. The box of 40 gr. Berger handloads lives permanently atop the book case next to the wood stove in the living room. And an Armageddon Gear Game Changer sits on the arm of the couch, ready for a quick grab-and-go.

If I can't see whatever it is that needs seeing well enough, the Leica Geovids are also always close-by. Riflescopes are for shooting.

That's a good idea, I might build one for my grandson, he's a south paw and being a kid making him spend one shot at a time is good training.

 

[David Milisock]

I'm a real field shooter - I hunt year around and /or engage in practical range practice i.e., shooting off of shooting sticks. Rarely do I shoot off a bench and then only for load development or when I need to determine the source of a problem I may be having with a particular rifle. I'm only interested in practical field shooting.

While I shoot and hunt a lot of 223 Rem bolt rifles, if I had to pick one caliber / rifle as my "working" rifle, it would be the 243 Win. With this caliber, I can successfully hunt deer, varmints and predators. In fact, this is exactly what I did in the late 60's through the mid 70's. I never found it lacking even in the days when I was restricted to factory ammo.

As far as rifles, my first choice would be a Winchester Model 70, control feed action. My second choice would be a Tikka T3X lite.

Later, when I began reloading, I discovered the 85 Sierra BTHP. With this bullet, I can hunt all 3 of the aforementioned species. This bullet shoots like a match bullet accuracy wise and has excellent terminal performance. There is a real advantage to have one do all bullet and rifle since the familiarity you can gain builds skill and confidence.

So, if "Big Brother" told me I can only have one rifle , this would be it!

I built an AR on the concept of 1 cartridge, 1 bullet for everything.

 

[David Milisock]

Long range Ruger #1 in 6mm Remington set up for 105gr. Medium range Ruger #1 in 6XC set up for 87gr. Short range Anschutz in 22 Mag. This is / was my prairie dog set up.

There's so much to like with those rifles and cartridges. I have a Remington 700 BDL in 6MM Remington. Someone else mentioned the Ruger #1, you guys got me thinkin.

 

[David Milisock]

This has been my "working" rifle for several years:

View attachment 1390727

Looks like you're working on the coyote population. What's the build? I've got a couple that are good for that, but my grandson will need one soon. I use a Howa 1500 in 223 and a Remington 700 BDL in 6MM Remington.