Want to build a 25 cal.—-your input appreciated

[nakneker]

I love my 25x47L, built on a Remington short action. Very little recoil, deadly, extremely accurate.

That being said theres a bunch of good choices that fit what your looking for, 250 savage improved and 257 Roberts improved are two I’ve had in the past and thoroughly enjoyed. 25 creed would be simple Simon too.

 

[std7mag]

Since this is a dual purpose coyote/deer rig, the Sierra 87 gr. is the 'go to' bullet in this one. It does everything right and shoots sub 1/2" three shot groups with the #2 barrel. For a dedicated coyote load, the Sierra 75 gr. hollow point would be my choice. They shoot crazy good @ 3,600+ and just hammer coyotes! As long as you're not saving pelts. The Hornady 75 VMax should be a good one though I've not killed anything with it. The Nosler 100 gr. BTip is the heaviest I've shot and sub 1/2" 3 shot groups are the norm....another great do-it-all bullet for a .25.

If I built it again, I'd spec it twisted 1:9 for a bit more leeway. The 9 twist would give the same stability to the 1.200" 115 gr BTip as the 10 twist does with the 1.110" 100 gr BTip. Bottom line...do it twisted 1:9 and you keep all the doors open. Pac-Nor's 5 groove .25's are very good barrels, the Bartlien stuff is great, Kreiger....any of those three (any likely more) will be good ones.

Randy Robinett at BIB Bullets aka: 'Lord Grizzly' (nicknamed for his tune-up skills with Grizzly lathes ) supplied me with some of his 88 gr. flat based bullets to evaluate. With a bunch of 760, a T36 Weaver on top and a Sinclair Accuracy Asset on the fore end, those bullets will really put a smile on your face. And they're sturdy enough for hunting use.

Good shootin' -Al

9 twist is not needed to shoot the 115gr Ballistic Tips.

The 25 caliber "standard" of 1:10 will shoot these just fine.
Even my "lowly" 250 Savage will shoot the 120gr Sierra HPBT GameKing.
Gotta admit, it does look cool with the 115gr Berger VLD!

And don't forget, Sierra discontinued the 75gr HP Varminter & 120gr HPBT GameKing.

For coyotes, i've switched over to the 90gr Sierra BlitzKing. Flies well & still devastating on coyotes near or far.

@20 TAC
The sweet spot with the 1:10 twist barrels for long range seems to be the 115gr Berger VLD, 110gr Hornady ELDX, and 110gr Sierra Tipped GameKing.

Someone on this forum was getting hits at over 1,300 yards with the 110gr Sierra.

 

[std7mag]

Oh, and i did the 7mm-08AI.
Looks cool at band camp.
But really didn't pick up any noticable velocity.
Some say 243AI possibly picking up 100fps.

AI just doesn't add as much to the 308 case.

 

[Orr89rocz]

The one thing to consider with the 250 Savage/AI & 257 Roberts/AI is the lower pressure of those cartridges.
56,000psi with the +P 257 Roberts.
The 25 Creed & 25 Souper run at higher pressures.
Hence you can squeeze more velocity from them.

If case "quality" is a concern, you have it in spades with the Souper. Lots of match grade brass in 308 & 260 Rem out there.

Personally, i'd do the Souper.
But a lot of that is the basis on which the Creed came about.
IF i was worried about magazine length, i'd do the Creed.

Savage Axis with 24" E.R. Shaw barrel in 250Savage, shooting lowish charge of Alliant Varmint ppushes a 75gr Sierra HP Varminter around 3,150fps.
The coyotes out to 400 yards don't know or care that it's not 3,500fps.

My thoughts The brass doesnt care what the saami rated pressure is. Load data does and might be limited to 56ksi for the roberts +p but if you work up you’ll run closer to 60-65ksi just fine like factory 6mm remington does, which is basically same case as the roberts, or 243, 25-06 etc. they were all saami spec’d much higher. No reason why the bob cant be loaded to same in a good modern action. I push 110 tipped game kings to 2950 in a 20” barrel. No pressure signs yet but it shoots single ragged holes at 100.

 

[moorepower]

Yea, but the guy is going to need brass.

Very good point these days. KISS. CM, and .284 based.

 

[p-man]

I've been shooting both 250 Sav and 250 Sav AI for most of my life (I'm 71); I also shot a 6.5x47 for a few of those. Currently I am contemplating building a quick-twist 25CM but have been waiting to see if the round will get standardized with SAAMI and gain commercial traction. The closest case to the 25CM dimensionally is the 250 Sav Improved which like the CM has a 30-degree shoulder - the 250 Sav AI or Ackley Improved is a 40-degree shoulder. Average case capacities : 250 Sav Imp - 51.5, 25CM - 52, the 250 Sav AI 52.5 and I'm thinking that the caliber variants of the 6.5 x 47 Lapua are close to 48. Based on this plus prior comments, my conclusions are:

(1) The only way you'll get similar velocities from the Lapua 47-mm case will be to drive it at much higher chamber pressures. You mentioned efficiency, if shorter case life and a little more pronounced throat wear are not a consideration, then the smaller case could be considered more ballistically efficient. (As an aside, there are CM cases available in small primer version, which should in theory be stronger than the same in large primer construction. Lapua designed its cartridge with the small primer for this reason, so that it could better withstand higher pressures.)

(2) I've reloaded (12) calibers over the past 40+ years and I've never had any issues with any 250 Savage based case being weaker or shorter-lived so to speak than any of my other caliber brass; I have had case failures with other calibers but never had one with the 250 Savage.

(3) I admit that sometimes the 250 Savage brass can be difficult to find but there are premium sources usually available which I would use before I would neck-up 22-250 brass. While I've done similar in the past with other calibers for instance 30-06 to 8mm-06, that's a 5% increase in diameter - going from the 22-250 .224 diameter to .257 is a 15% increase so I would be much more concerned about the thinning of the brass neck.

Just my thoughts/concerns.

 

[MQ1]

I currently own a few 25-06 rifles and love the chambering but would like to build something with velocities close to the 25-06 but in a short action…and something with a more efficient case design. A little less powder capacity and a little less recoil than the 25-06 would be ideal.
Here’s the difference compared to other threads—I am not looking to shoot heavy bullets. Main purpose of the build would be a relatively lightweight flat shooting coyote rifle out to 500 yds +/- with the ability to shoot occasional Antelope or deer. Currently have an abundant supply of 75 grain V-Max along with some 85 Noslers and 115 Berger hunting. The 115 would be the absolute heaviest bullet I would want to shoot.
Ideas so far are: 250 AI or 25 Creedmoor, also received some excellent input on the 25-243 AI. Any input, thoughts, or additional suggestions would be much appreciated.

Thank you

Build a Souper with a 30 degree shoulder. It should feed better and reliably vs. a 40 degree Ackley shoulder, give you a bit more room for powder and would be a really easy wildcat that you could hammer coyotes with while you were forming brass with stiff loads with lighter bullets.

I had the same discussion with Gale Mcmillian many, many years ago…and he talked me into a 12 twist 243AI instead .

FWIW,

MQ1

 

[AlNyhus]

9 twist is not needed to shoot the 115gr Ballistic Tips.

The 25 caliber "standard" of 1:10 will shoot these just fine.
Even my "lowly" 250 Savage will shoot the 120gr Sierra HPBT GameKing.

Yes, my 25-06 shoots both of those well too.

Rather than blah-blahing about absolute Sg numbers...the Nosler 115 BTip @ 3100 in a 10 twist comes in significantly under 1.5 Sg. which for me, is as low as I'll risk for a hunting rig. Twisting it 1:9 takes it right to 1.5. The Sierra 120 is fully .040 shorter than the Nosler 115 BTip....so no surprise that it's more stable in a 10 twist than the Nosler 115 BTip.

So while the 9 twist certainly isn't needed, I just like a bit of a safety net on a huntin' rig...especially a new build.

I snagged 500 of the now discontinued Sierra 75 gr. HP Varminter from their online store when they were being discontinued. Their new 70 gr. tipped Varminter #1605 is a flat based bullet that shoots really, really well in both my 25-06 and the 250 Ackley Improved.

The Hornady 75 GR VMax...not so much in either the 25-06 or the 250AI. I try to like 'em but my barrels tell me differently.

Just my 2 cents worth. Not enough to even get a cup of coffee on the other side of my State.

Good shootin' -Al

 

[Orr89rocz]

Yes, my 25-06 shoots both of those well too.

Rather than blah-blahing about absolute Sg numbers...the Nosler 115 BTip @ 3100 in a 10 twist comes in significantly under 1.5 Sg. which for me, is as low as I'll risk for a hunting rig. Twisting it 1:9 takes it right to 1.5. The Sierra 120 is fully .040 shorter than the Nosler 115 BTip....so no surprise that it's more stable in a 10 twist than the Nosler 115 BTip.

So while the 9 twist certainly isn't needed, I just like a bit of a safety net on a huntin' rig...especially a new build.

I snagged 500 of the now discontinued Sierra 75 gr. HP Varminter from their online store when they were being discontinued. Their new 70 gr. tipped Varminter #1605 is a flat based bullet that shoots really, really well in both my 25-06 and the 250 Ackley Improved.

The Hornady 75 GR VMax...not so much in either the 25-06 or the 250AI. I try to like 'em but my barrels tell me differently.

Just my 2 cents worth. Not enough to even get a cup of coffee on the other side of my State.

Good shootin' -Al

Are you including the plastic tip in the overall length for the twist calc? I was told not to do that. The berger calc would not be correct if using tip length. Use the JBM ballistics calc which allows you to enter the tip length to get a different sg

 

[Scrumbag]

I do like 257 Roberts

 

[284winner]

I currently own a few 25-06 rifles and love the chambering but would like to build something with velocities close to the 25-06 but in a short action…and something with a more efficient case design. A little less powder capacity and a little less recoil than the 25-06 would be ideal.
Here’s the difference compared to other threads—I am not looking to shoot heavy bullets. Main purpose of the build would be a relatively lightweight flat shooting coyote rifle out to 500 yds +/- with the ability to shoot occasional Antelope or deer. Currently have an abundant supply of 75 grain V-Max along with some 85 Noslers and 115 Berger hunting. The 115 would be the absolute heaviest bullet I would want to shoot.
Ideas so far are: 250 AI or 25 Creedmoor, also received some excellent input on the 25-243 AI. Any input, thoughts, or additional suggestions would be much appreciated.

Thank you

I built a 25-284 and love it. That said, I built it to run the 130 class bullets to 3200 fps for Western Antelope hunting. Sounds like your requirements would be something that the 25 Creedmoor could fullfil. Running 115 grain bullet to and beyond 3000 easily. Brass is available and good brass as well.

 

[20 TAC]

Wow, a ton of good input from all who commented. With that said I believe I am narrowing it down to the 25 Creedmoor or the 250AI. While I like the 250AI for its 40 degree shoulder, ability to form from quality 22-250 Lapua brass and just the “cool factor” with the cartridge’s history, the Creedmoor gets consideration for available quality brass (small primer brass a plus at that) properly headstamped for the chambering along with easily obtainable 6.5 dies that can modified for use with 25 cal. As long as I can get access to a short throat chamber design, it will be difficult to veer from the Creedmoor. This build is going to take some time to assemble components for, but I will definitely keep you updated. I have Sierra 75 HP, Hornady 75 V-Max, Nosler 85 BT, Nosler 110 Accubond and Berger 115 VLD hunting for bullets to test.

Thoughts for powder options for the lighter weight bullets…I’m well stocked on Varget currently. I assume this would be a viable option then maybe move to a H4350 burn rate for the heavier bullets?

 

[std7mag]

Wow, a ton of good input from all who commented. With that said I believe I am narrowing it down to the 25 Creedmoor or the 250AI. While I like the 250AI for its 40 degree shoulder, ability to form from quality 22-250 Lapua brass and just the “cool factor” with the cartridge’s history, the Creedmoor gets consideration for available quality brass (small primer brass a plus at that) properly headstamped for the chambering along with easily obtainable 6.5 dies that can modified for use with 25 cal. As long as I can get access to a short throat chamber design, it will be difficult to veer from the Creedmoor. This build is going to take some time to assemble components for, but I will definitely keep you updated. I have Sierra 75 HP, Hornady 75 V-Max, Nosler 85 BT, Nosler 110 Accubond and Berger 115 VLD hunting for bullets to test.

Thoughts for powder options for the lighter weight bullets…I’m well stocked on Varget currently. I assume this would be a viable option then maybe move to a H4350 burn rate for the heavier bullets?

Alliant Varmint!
With 24" barrel & charge on the low side getting in the 3,150fps range with 75gr Sierra HP.

200 meter group off of bench with bipod & rear bag. Scope a 4-12X40 Redfield Revenge.

Picture is actually rotated 90° to the right. The flier was me caught out by the wind.

 

[whatsupdoc]

Hornady is comming out with a 25 Caliber 134 Grain ELD Match Bullet

G1 .645 BC
G7 .325 BC

 

[SweaterDood]

My suggestion, based on having 25-06, 25-06AI, 257 RobAI, & 25x47L would be to go with either the 25x47L or 25 CM. The .308 based cases are starting to get a bit overbore, IMO. I don’t think the .130” FB on either of the Blackjack reamers would cause an issue with lighter bullets, but you would have to jump them. My .257 RobAI has a .175” FB and shoot anything from 100gr+. I don’t think the .130” FB will give much trouble for the 75-85gr pills. It would give some extra boiler room though…

If Lapua, Alpha, or Peterson don’t make brass for it, I wouldn’t chamber it. That rules out the 250 Sav or 250 AI for me. Remember also the 6.5 is only .007” from .257. And 6mm/.243 is only .014” away. Since you’ll be reloading whatever you choose, you will only be 1 operation away from a quarter bore with either of those brass family members. Don’t get too hung up on “25x47L” or “25 Creed” brass. If the 6mm or 6.5mm version as are available, buy those and neck up/down.

 

[SweaterDood]

Hornady is comming out with a 25 Caliber 134 Grain ELD Match Bullet

G1 .645 BC
G7 .325 BC

Yep. Q1 2023, supposedly

 

[megastink]

I am also contemplating a 257 build. I believe it will be a 25/45 Sharps with a lightweight 20" CF barrel on a MAC Bros action and a Grayboe Trekker. I'm thinking ADL/blind mag to keep weight down. I'm hoping the entire rifle will be sub 6lbs without optic.

 

[wildcatter]

Make mine 257 Bob AI,,,, 1-10 please. My favorite long range Varmint, and medium game choice.

 

[No manches"]

Make mine 257 Bob AI,,,, 1-10 please. My favorite long range Varmint, and medium game choice.

Amen! to this brother"

 

[White Eagle]

257 Roberts AI would be very nice.

that would be my take as well
I would choose that over the 25-06