338 sherman

[can1010]

there is a lot of info on long range hunter about Sherman wildcats and even treads specific to reloading. I dont have any of them but have been reading about them for years and you have to make sure you dont confuse the 06 base with the saum or the 300 prc and now his own case design based on the wsm case.
last i read he had the 338 sherman, 338sst, 338max, 338mega, and 338 mag.
the pressure vs. velocity has been beatin to death over there and even to the point he dont post much because of the fighting. i guess each has to make there own decision on if max speed and 3-5 reloads or if 15-20 reloads at lower pressure is right for there hunting situation. A lot of the guys that have them are happy with pushing the limits and minimum reloads.

 

[David Milisock]

there is a lot of info on long range hunter about Sherman wildcats and even treads specific to reloading. I dont have any of them but have been reading about them for years and you have to make sure you dont confuse the 06 base with the saum or the 300 prc and now his own case design based on the wsm case.
last i read he had the 338 sherman, 338sst, 338max, 338mega, and 338 mag.
the pressure vs. velocity has been beatin to death over there and even to the point he dont post much because of the fighting. i guess each has to make there own decision on if max speed and 3-5 reloads or if 15-20 reloads at lower pressure is right for there hunting situation. A lot of the guys that have them are happy with pushing the limits and minimum reloads.

That's the problem I saw. What one were you talking about? The only way to know is if all the critical information is in one post.

I'm of the opinion that if you're going through the trouble of an enhanced 338 caliber 3,000 FPS with a 250 should be the goal.

The 338 Sherman looks interesting but easily accessible coherent information is needed.

 

[wboggs]

That's the problem I saw. What one were you talking about? The only way to know is if all the critical information is in one post.

I'm of the opinion that if you're going through the trouble of an enhanced 338 caliber 3,000 FPS with a 250 should be the goal.

The 338 Sherman looks interesting but easily accessible coherent information is needed.

The .338 win mag, .338 rum, .338 lapua have full factory
support with extensive pressure tested data. No individual can afford the equipment to do this. I don't quite understand the need to debate the issue when there
is no comparable data on the wildcat Shermans and never will be.

 

[SamAnderson]

The .338 win mag, .338 rum, .338 lapua have full factory
support with extensive pressure tested data. No individual can afford the equipment to do this. I don't quite understand the need to debate the issue when there
is no comparable data on the wildcat Shermans and never will be.

But there are real people with data that they have collected. If you just google search 338 Sherman there's plenty of forums and reports of these velocities being achieved. So what if the pressure is high, most people are hunting with them and taking very few shots per year so brass life and barrel life can be short. And most custom actions are tested to way higher pressures than what you'll be able to create.

 

[762 ULTRAMAGA]

But there are real people with data that they have collected. If you just google search 338 Sherman there's plenty of forums and reports of these velocities being achieved. So what if the pressure is high, most people are hunting with them and taking very few shots per year so brass life and barrel life can be short. And most custom actions are tested to way higher pressures than what you'll be able to create.

I think the point here is that running a smaller case at extreme pressure to match a bigger case at normal pressure isn't beneficial in any way.
I personally love shoulder angles 35 degrees and greater, but I don't believe in toting something as being efficient and faster than cases with 25% more capacity while running at super super high pressures to get there.
It's a lot like saying that a redlined prious is faster than a half throttled mustang

 

[wboggs]

But there are real people with data that they have collected. If you just google search 338 Sherman there's plenty of forums and reports of these velocities being achieved. So what if the pressure is high, most people are hunting with them and taking very few shots per year so brass life and barrel life can be short. And most custom actions are tested to way higher pressures than what you'll be able to create.

My point is that if you run the Sherman at 80,000 then load the higher capacity cases to the same level and then compare them.

 

[David Milisock]

My point is that if you run the Sherman at 80,000 then load the higher capacity cases to the same level and then compare them.

Just me but running 80,000 is not in my future, I don't want to be a danger to those around me because in the field stuff happens.

I don't run SAAMI pressures all the time, examples would be 6.5x55, 358 Norma, 8x57JS, 357 Sig and my 450 Marlin. The SAAMI pressures have a reason but my rifles don't fit that criteria. So these cases run European specs as does my 357 SIG. The 450 Marlin SAAMI pressures are based on lever rifles, my rifle is a large ring Mauser using 500 grain projectiles and loaded to 62,000 PSI.

With that said my 6MM Remington is a 65,000 PSI case by SAAMI specs and no way in hell do I exceed that. If you got a bit of a twig in the bore or ice build up you didn't notice you need head room.

 

[David Milisock]

The .338 win mag, .338 rum, .338 lapua have full factory
support with extensive pressure tested data. No individual can afford the equipment to do this. I don't quite understand the need to debate the issue when there
is no comparable data on the wildcat Shermans and never will be.

The 338 WIN, RUM and Lapua do have plenty of data which is why I went to a 35. I had 3 standard length actions in stock and wanted 3,000 FPS + or- from a 250 grain from that length action. The 358 Norma was close to that with SAAMI pressures, loading to 64,000, cutting the freebore to my bullet choice and the extra barrel length put it over the top.

I know people love the 338 Win, but not me, I guess I'm not the only one which is why you have the 338 RUM and Lapua.

The Sherman may be interesting but there doesn't seem to be anyone making a statement for it using complete information. Case capacity in grains of water of the various cases and barrel length are critical, as well as bullet weight and style.

I like the 338 caliber but it suffers like the 6.5 calibers with heavy projectiles, you really need case capacity and barrel.

 

[B23]

Whenever I hear/read the word "efficient" to explain or justify velocity I generally think nope just high pressure/s.

 

[David Milisock]

Whenever I hear/read the word "efficient" to explain or justify velocity I generally think nope just high pressure/s.

That's not always the case but unfortunately most times it is.

A prime example would be a 30-06 and a 308 Norma. Both are the same case length, both can be loaded to 63,000 PSI in modern rifles. However the greater case capacity of the 308 Norma allows more powder and with the correct burn rate, peak pressure can be maintained equally between both cartridges but the larger case can maintain a longer pressure curve, ergo more velocity in the same barrel length.

I have a couple issues with the Sherman discussion, barrel length and someone mentioned 80,000 PSI.

 

[FeMan]

Just me but running 80,000 is not in my future, I don't want to be a danger to those around me because in the field stuff happens.........

I am with you all the way! Add a wet chamber to that and you are really pushing things! I keep my hunting rounds below 60,000 for that reason no matter what the brass is rated for (less for non mag cases of course). I've seen too many blown primers with broken triggers, jammed firing pins, or other issues from max loads in wet chambers to chance it for any field rifle.

 

[longbow]

338 Gibbs...nice case from a CHEAP 270 case. I shot a 6.5 Gibbs using the 270 case almost 30 years ago for 1K matches.Cheap brass,easy fireform...wish I'd kept it.A very affordable build using a Rem 25-06 Sendero to start with.opened up the barrel channel for a 30" Lilja HV taper,Jewell trigger. Consistant 5 shot groups under 4" at 500 yds, bipod on the ground for hunting. The bullets have come a LONG ways since those times shooting the Sierra bullets in the gun.

 

[longbow]

Load data for ALL The Sherman cases...338 Sherman..from the man himself!

 

[longbow]

The Sherman store,rent reamers,etc

https://shermanwildcatcartridges.com/online-store

 

[archeratlrg]

There is no free lunch. The (I hate the term magnum) enhanced performance cartridges gets that performance with one major component and that is pressure.

With that said there is also freebore, powder pressure curve and barrel length elements in that equation.

My experience is with the 358 Norma (similar case volume and standard action concept), I get 3,200 FPS with 250 grain Hornady SP. The barrel was custom cut, the barrel is 30" and the powder researched and different loads worked for 18 months. The case is a 64,000 PSI concept. I had a guy lose a steak dinner on a bet that I didn't get 3,200 FPS, it's just the perfect combination, the bolt opens with my pinky finger with no marks on the brass just a flat primer. Cases have over 10 loads with no problems.

The results of having similar velocities in the smaller a case as a larger case volume usually work for only one bullet weight. An example is my 358 Norma, it matches or exceeds 358 STA velocities with the 250, falls behind with 300's or heavier.

I also see similar capabilities with the short fat cases, they do well against their long narrow case counterparts with some projectiles. Example 300 mag and the various short mag versions.

I know this is an older post but would you care to share what powder you're using in your 358 Norma? Mine only has a 24" barrel but would like to milk as much goodie out of it as possible.

 

[David Milisock]

I know this is an older post but would you care to share what powder you're using in your 358 Norma? Mine only has a 24" barrel but would like to milk as much goodie out of it as possible.

Reloader 19 with a custom cut throat.

 

[archeratlrg]

Reloader 19 with a custom cut

Reloader 19 with a custom cut throat.

Care to share your start load so I have a reference to work from? Thanks

 

[archeratlrg]

Care to share your start load so I have a reference to work from? Thanks

Also, what 250 gr bullets are you using? I have a lot of Hornady and Nosler partitions and then a bunch of Speer bullets for work on paper. Never cared much for Speer bullets for hunting.

 

[David Milisock]

Also, what 250 gr bullets are you using? I have a lot of Hornady and Nosler partitions and then a bunch of Speer bullets for work on paper. Never cared much for Speer bullets for hunting.

250 grain Hornady Spire Points.

 

[archeratlrg]

I know this is an older post but would you care to share what powder you're using in your 358 Norma? Mine only has a 24" barrel but would like to milk as much goodie out of it as possible.

I know this is an older thread, but im getting 3054fps out of my 358 Norma with 250gr hornady's over a stiff load of IMR 4350.