P Dog 1st hunt need help on what to bring

[RegionRat]

There have been several comments in the thread against the use of an AR platform for prairie dogs.

While I'm sure the comments about sloppy inexperienced hunters spraying rounds are valid, those folks are not the same as ones who bring proper hardware and skills to the game.

So, I will beg to differ on the anti AR platform concept. I have hunted CA, AZ, NV, UT, CO, WY, SD and ND with AR platforms in 223 and 20 cal and have never encountered this anti-AR sentiment from ranchers. They usually beg me to return as soon as possible, with the AR.

 

[H2OBUG]

Not an expert but if I did it again.
I would
Buy a cheap upper and BCG for an AR and plan on burning it down.
Two Savage Axis rifles or similar in 223
Xp 100 in 223
I took a 22-250 and a 243 a couple times. 22-250 is nice but dealing with other ammo was a bit of a pain
243 was too big you could not see them blow up in the scope.
I loaded a pile of 223 if I did it over I would buy 55 Gr Hornady SP and 40 gr Fiochii. Sell most of the brass when you get back.

Buy a couple nice 6-24 scopes or close. Use 20 MOA bases on the bolts.

Bring a spotter scope

Bring good bags and a nice shooting table.

Foam bore clean and string style patch.

It is a great time enjoy

 

[redrockranger]

There have been several comments in the thread against the use of an AR platform for prairie dogs.

While I'm sure the comments about sloppy inexperienced hunters spraying rounds are valid, those folks are not the same as ones who bring proper hardware and skills to the game.

So, I will beg to differ on the anti AR platform concept. I have hunted CA, AZ, NV, UT, CO, WY, SD and ND with AR platforms in 223 and 20 cal and have never encountered this anti-AR sentiment from ranchers. They usually beg me to return as soon as possible, with the AR.

B. S. if i ever heard it.

 

[BobbyJ]

BobbyJ:

I would not worry about the explosive factor on the PD's. Almost any bullet will blow them up at the 200 yard range. I urge you to develop your loads and prove them on the target at the 200 yard range.

I had 2 Rem 700's in 223, (mine and one for my son). I converted one to 22-250 to reach the longer dogs, and it is my backup gun to the custom 6BR that I use now. I have transitioned to longer shots, and I use a heavier bullet, 88 gr in the 6br and 62gr in the 22-250.

I have changed to a lazy hunter, and I tend to shoot at the long range dogs and leave the close ones for a couple of our younger shooters. I range each dog, run the ballistics on it ( Kestrel 5700 with Applied Ballistics on a post with a wind vane), and my scopes have target dots, so every shot is held dead on the dog.

Here is an equipment list that I use when packing my SUV for a PD trip. I check one box when I pull the item from wherever it is stored and put it in the pile to load and check the last box when I place it in the SUV. There are probably some things that you don't need on there, make your own list, it really helps to keep from forgetting something like the ammo for the back up gun. My shooting buddy's list is a little different, he brings the booze and the snacks which we enjoy in the evenings, plus he brings a lot of excess stuff like a coffee grinder and expresso machine.

The forum not giving me updates on this thread sorry missed this post. Thanks for the list!!!

Yes I don't know quite what to expect on PD hunt. For guns I simply choose .223 because its common and I have tons of .223 free brass and figured maybe the lower velocity would keep the barrels cooler than say 22-250 or .204 ruger. I like my .204 but its best for low volume pest control I think I'll smoke the pencil barrel shooting PD all day. Even at the range its gets super hot fast vs .223 or .17 wsm. So simple approach is to just bring one caliber to rule all the PDs with Well at least 350 yards and closer.

Bang for the buck I think the AR .223s (With a match bull barrel) are decent. I can't buy a good new .223 full rifle for 300.00. So just bring AR uppers and swap them. I had to make sure a AR could even shoot Sub Moa first. I'm use to bolts but the recent one I built shoots ever thing I toss at it. I think the 1" bull barrels are so stiff they don't have nodes like the pencil barrels so a variety of ammo shoots almost the same out of it. I'll put that to the test when I make the 2nd one, could be just a lucky barrel.

Then I can bring one load that shoots good from all the guns. Not really into doing loads for a bunch of different guns.

Maybe after using the .223 I will want to do what you did move up in power and range. Not sure what bullets to bring. I have 36gr VG, 40gr Vmax, 53gr Vmax, 69 gr SMK and HMR. Probably use the 53s just got the VG because people say they are WOW explosive but also they not so hot past 200 yards.

Are there that many opportunitys to shoot inside 100 yards or is it mostly 200+ ? I'll be using an outfitter but not sure who yet.

 

[BobbyJ]

B. S. if i ever heard it.

? You mean people care if you use a bolt vs AR? Why? I can close the gas port and use AR in single shot mode if needed. I like bolts better but since I'm paying for the guns for the people I found AR to be cheaper to just built some uppers to use with lowers. Takes up less room too.

 

[BobbyJ]

Not an expert but if I did it again.
I would
Buy a cheap upper and BCG for an AR and plan on burning it down.
Two Savage Axis rifles or similar in 223
Xp 100 in 223
I took a 22-250 and a 243 a couple times. 22-250 is nice but dealing with other ammo was a bit of a pain
243 was too big you could not see them blow up in the scope.
I loaded a pile of 223 if I did it over I would buy 55 Gr Hornady SP and 40 gr Fiochii. Sell most of the brass when you get back.

Buy a couple nice 6-24 scopes or close. Use 20 MOA bases on the bolts.

Bring a spotter scope

Bring good bags and a nice shooting table.

Foam bore clean and string style patch.

It is a great time enjoy

I was just thinking of exactly what you are. I was going to buy new bolt rifles but got to thinking maybe an AR could do it. I've never been impressed with most ARs in terms of precision but then again most people have 0 power scopes on them or at best a 4x and they shoot close. I have a few colts and never shot them past 50 yards. Just used open sights.

So I built a AR upper, one to test but its a 24" match bull barrel + Aero Enhanced upper. Its sub MOA pretty impressive almost Bolt like. Good enough for PD I think. I think I might just build some more and deciding if I really need a bull barrel maybe a .75" is good enough like shaw barrel are quite a bit cheaper.
Or even less just get a non stainless .75" but doubt it will shoot as good precision wise.

And I planned to load my own .223 like you cause I have a ton of free brass to use and powder. Why do you regret doing that? And why 40 and 55gr ammo why not just pick one weight to do all?

Do you think a 3-15x SWFA is enough power? I have an extra one along with better glassed 6-24x varmint scopes.

Thanks for the insight, good solid advise.

 

[Steel Mover]

Cooling is alays a problem, so switching uppers on an AR-15 makes a bunch of sense. Most folks bring a 22 ifle along to engage the under 100 targets, while cooling hot barrels. You can switch to a 6mm GPC or 6x45 also. Also, a couple cans of compressed air to quick cool a barrel. I like to bring a bore solvent like Sweet Shooter and a bore snake in a ziplock bag. It is not diffcult to put together a 223 that shoots sub .5 inches with a 50-55 grain at 3200 fps and you do not need a bull barrel, but fluted adds surface for cooling and strength, plus 16-18" is a plenty.
Been building and reparing ARs since 62-64.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

Just loosely wrap barrels with a wet/damp rag. Shoot close to far. Have a drop and wind chart. Hit more than you miss. Avoid sunburns. Leave you shooting locations cleaner than when you started. Have fun.

 

[powderbrake]

Do you think a 3-15x SWFA is enough power? I have an extra one along with better glassed 6-24x varmint scopes.

The 6-24 is better. The 6 power is good for spotting the dogs, and the 24 power will help you see the dogs as you develop a sight picture.

Anything over 8 at the lower power is difficult to scan for dogs. I tried a 12-42 on one gun, and the 12 has too small a field of view to find dogs. Of course I loved the 42 but I switched back to a Nightforce 8-32 on that gun.

Again, I caution you to spend the minimum on new guns until AFTER your first trip.

Make sure your bipod is short enough so your rear bag is normal height, and have a 10 or 20 round mag so it doesn't hit the table as you change elevation. it is important that you have a comfortable position, as long mags or high bipods can mess up an AR seating position. I had a Harris bipod on my AR, and I had to modify it, by cutting down the leg length.

 

[BobbyJ]

Leave you shooting locations cleaner than when you started. Have fun.

Oh does that include picking up the dead Pdogs too? Going to have bring a hazmat suite

 

[RegionRat]

Do you think a 3-15x SWFA is enough power? I have an extra one along with better glassed 6-24x varmint scopes.

To start out, there will be no problem with the SWFA. It has very good turrets and a good reticle. I was bummed when they discontinued those. The ability to swing down helps rookies get oriented to find the right target. Also, nothing wrong with the 6x-24x.

To decide, just get out into some flat ground and find a non-descript point in the grass out around 300 yards. Try to see how fast you can bring the point into the scope at different magnification and then swing up the mag. With experience you will go up in magnification but to start out the lower power helps orient the view faster. Soon you will find yourself able to point to the right mound and target at 10x for most targets.

 

[D Coots]

Binoculars for scanning the area. Try using a scope also and report back. Grapes and pumpkins come to mind.

 

[JSH]

Man you boys get all bent on the AR subject. I have no issue with an AR, I have a fine example. I don’t think anyone else questioned the ability of them. The major thing is operator discretion. I am like a kid in a candy store, I find it allows me to miss faster. My hit to miss ratio goes to crap really quick when I can just send another one right quick.
I use 10 round mags when I take mine, better on the bench and makes me take into account of using some adult supervision.

My heavy built bolt guns spoiled me, no recoil, you are your own spotter and ya get to see ALL of “the show” as well.

 

[CT10ring]

I have another thread on what gun to bring but then started to think I need more than that. I'm in Michigan and have 3 buddies that want to try a PD 2 day shoot someplace. Don't know where or what to bring exactly. I can tell you what we have now.

- Dillon XL 650 with Dillon 223 dies + all the prep stuff wet tumblers etc.
- 3000 rounds of range brass
- 2 pounds (left) of CFE 223
- 1,000 CCI 400s
- 2,000 CCI 450s
- 1,000 Rem 7 1/2
- (would need to buy more primers at like 85.00 box of 1,000)
Current Guns
- Two .17 cal WSMs Maybe 1,000 rounds of 20 gr rimfire ammo
- many 22 Lr rimfires
- one Ruger .204 pencil barrel 1/10 twist (maybe 100 rounds of ammo)
- one .223 bolt with 12x scope
- I have 3 Japan 2010 B Elite 6-24x Varmint scopes
- two SWFA 3-15x Scopes
- 1 SWFA fixed 10x scope
- 2 Argos 6-24x scopes
- 3 16" Colt 6920s only 4x Acogs though.
All the rest of my guns are pistols, military WW2 stuff or big calibers 450 BM, shotguns etc.

I'm going to be buying some new stuff not sure what. Get a 24" upper for the ARs like a 223 or even a 20 practical (i've never heard of one till yesterday) I like the best bang for the buck so I'm not buying a bunch of SAKOs don't even bring those up

I want to sort of keep it simple so was thinking just bring all .223 as I can just reload and crank out 3,000 rounds and be done and I could buy ammo there if we run out or something. Or... go with 20 practical for a little better performance over .223 but that might open a can of worms since I don't know much about that caliber other than its .204-like and I could use my current 223 brass.
So figure at least 3 people going what do we need?

- Rounds? 800 each for 2 days?
- Guns? - are the 22 rimfires or .17 wsms worth taking? Don't know how many shots 50-100 yards you even get on P Dogs might be a waste
- If all center fire is one gun each and maybe 1 extra enough? I was thinking one .223 each and maybe 1 backup gun. But maybe its a 2 gun each type thing dunno never been Pdogging
- Where to go? - No idea which places are the best for Pdog hunts. But sort of want a place that specializes and provides meals range etc.
- Extra gun - I could see us each getting one more new gun or upper. .223 or .20 practicle, Bolt or AR upper? If AR upper what barrels are accurate and what twist? I'm thinking if .223 would go 24" 1/12 shoot 53 gr Hornady or if Bolt maybe a CZ Varmint in .223. Only reason I'm sticking with .223 is I have brass, press and dies. If I found a good deal on pre loaded ammo I could do that too.
- Spotting scope worth it? I have a few of those old Bushnell Star gazer in 24x
- Video? I could get some kind of phone adapter for the spotting scopes
- bullets? if .223 thinking the 53gr as a do all would need to shoot decent out of all guns if .204 (20 prac) probably 39gr? or 40gr Vmax out of 1/10 or 1/11 twist?

Drive or fly there? I'm thinking flying might be a hassle with guns involved. How do people transport them so thinking it might be a long drive just to get there from Michigan.

Any help on what to bring, where to go and what type of guns and extra stuff to bring would be appreciated. Just trying to prevent the post trip stuff where you go "Shit I wish I brought this or that or went to a diff place etc"

Hey, I didn't read every word but you are clearly ready to shoot!
Some random thoughts.
No rimfire. my .02
.223 is underpowered in a *brisk* wind or past 375 yds. Sorry. If you want hits, often in the wind? yeah, but no.
You want flat and fast. .223 is not that. Although w a 40g it's good to 300 yds. - or be prepared to hold off alot.
22-250 is the go-to caliber for many. Can't beat it. I like the 22-243 w a 73 g bullet, but that is an odd one.
A 6mm is good in the the wind and it's always windy on the high desert. 6mmbr, brx 22br 6X47 or 6 Creedmoor.
204 Ruger w a 39g bullet is fantastic out to 400 yds or so.
Spotting scope? Only with your spotter behind you. Then heck yes.
Use a muzzle brake to cut felt recoil by 1/2 and spot your hits/misses in your scope dialed down.
Drive. Flying is a hassle. Although you can ship rifles and ammo UPS in advance to a gun store, hotel. I have...
I'd allow extra 2 days for bad weather/ wind, rain, so 5 days shooting. If in summer, 1.5 gal water per person and have a plan to make or find shade. Here's my pack list. I camp in a trailer near the PD towns, fwiw. Will you be shooting on a mat w bipod or a bench w/ stool? If bench and stool, you are driving

 

[ken158]

I have only been hunting PD’s about 15 years now but every trip is fine tuned from the last. First and especially on a 2 day trip, you will not have time or energy to do any field or motel reloading, so get your loads established and load at home. I always plan on 400 rounds per day and never shoot all my ammo. Just swapping out fired brass and filling boxes up with fresh ammo takes enough time when you factor in getting cleaned up, going to dinner and having a few drinks while you plan the next day’s activities. We all know what will happen if you mix that with trying to load a couple hundred rounds of ammo. Take two of your most accurate rifles equipped with at least 16X quality scopes. Once you hit about 24X the mirage will have you turning the powder back. Get the best binoculars and rangefinder you can afford. You will use them constantly. Your rifles should shoot 1/2” @ 100 to be accurate enough at 400. Young PD’s are about the size of a baseball. Rimfire is OK if your gun is accurate enough but after the shooting starts the range will get longer as the close ones are either already dead or will stay down. Leave the AR at home unless you have a specifically built varmint model. Remember, the wind always blows in these areas so sunglasses, floppy hat that covers back of your neck and spray on sun screen are essential. Wear boots and watch for snakes. We don't see many but a prairie rattler can ruin a hunt… There are so many things to consider that it is crazy what you need to think of. If you are driving then factor in extra travel days. If you are flying, factor in what you can carry on the plane and what you need to ship to your contact person. Gas and plane tickets are crazy expensive now. I have just touched the edges of this topic. Someone should write a book about what to consider and take on specific hunting trips!

 

[Coyotecreek]

Is there a particular time of the year these animals need to be hunted?

 

[BobbyJ]

204 Ruger w a 39g bullet is fantastic out to 400 yds or so.
Will you be shooting on a mat w bipod or a bench w/ stool? If bench and stool, you are driving

Well my poor mans .204 will be the 223 53gr Vmax. With its BC its not that far off my .204 ruger. Just picked 223 because I have a ton of FREE brass and most my buddies have 223s. Just to keep it simple. I agree 22-250 is great.

No idea on how I will shoot Bipod vs bench. Once place I looked at said they supplie benches.
Laying down with rattle snakes? Maybe I should bring my Colt SAA blast them rattlers like in the cowboy movies.

I will most likely drive (Michigan) - with all the new laws and UPS not shipping I think its just asking for problems trying send gear to a hunt. I don't trust others with my gear.

I did a ballistics graph of the 204 39gr vs 223 53gr vmax. They are closer than expected. If you say the 204 is good to 400 yards the 223 might be good to 370 or so. The 223 even hits harder at 400 yards.


Almost 3 feet of drift going to have to print out some charts for the shooters. Or do you guys just look at the dust from the bullets and make on the fly "feel" type adjustments. The 40gr Vmax have 46" of wind drift. Drop wise they are about the same as the 53s if shot at 3700.

Why do people bother with the 40gr Vmax when the 53gr crushes it in the wind and energy? Maybe the wind is not as bad as i thought I used 20mph.

 

[BobbyJ]

Take two of your most accurate rifles equipped with at least 16X quality scopes. Once you hit about 24X the mirage will have you turning the powder back. Get the best binoculars and rangefinder you can afford. You will use them constantly. Your rifles should shoot 1/2” @ 100 to be accurate enough at 400. Young PD’s are about the size of a baseball.

Appreciate the info!
I have most of the gear and will bring all the ammo with me. I'm waiting for primer prices to go down a bit. I still have primers but running low under 3000.

Right now i'm testing loads in a Varmint 24" AR I put together. I might just bring 4 AR uppers in that same 24" vs buying a cheap 223 full rifle. If I did not have so much 223 brass I would make them all .204 uppers.

 

[sw282]

Bob-Primer prices AIN'T going down.
FAST light bullets are KING. Less time for wind and gravity to work on them. Shooting this new 20TAC with 32gr VMAX @4000fps is almost 'Point and Shoot' out to 300yards. After 300 l'm not interested because l cant see em POP!

 

[markT]

Well my poor mans .204 will be the 223 53gr Vmax. With its BC its not that far off my .204 ruger. Just picked 223 because I have a ton of FREE brass and most my buddies have 223s. Just to keep it simple. I agree 22-250 is great.

No idea on how I will shoot Bipod vs bench. Once place I looked at said they supplie benches.
Laying down with rattle snakes? Maybe I should bring my Colt SAA blast them rattlers like in the cowboy movies.

I will most likely drive (Michigan) - with all the new laws and UPS not shipping I think its just asking for problems trying send gear to a hunt. I don't trust others with my gear.

I did a ballistics graph of the 204 39gr vs 223 53gr vmax. They are closer than expected. If you say the 204 is good to 400 yards the 223 might be good to 370 or so. The 223 even hits harder at 400 yards.

View attachment 1369956
Almost 3 feet of drift going to have to print out some charts for the shooters. Or do you guys just look at the dust from the bullets and make on the fly "feel" type adjustments. The 40gr Vmax have 46" of wind drift. Drop wise they are about the same as the 53s if shot at 3700.

Why do people bother with the 40gr Vmax when the 53gr crushes it in the wind and energy? Maybe the wind is not as bad as i thought I used 20mph.

If you are driving make a table / bench and bring it with you. Some outfitters don't have stable benches.. Also, the outfitter may put you on another town if you have your own gear and you wont be lined up like hogs at a trough when shooting..