Vertical Dispersion: Flat spots on the MV ladder test are meaningless

[Beiruty]

In the last few years, the so-called Satterlee Ladder test caught fire on the net, and every other new reloader wanted to get into a node in 10 shots. I did my own theoretical and practical research and concluded that this method of reloading for accuracy is not valid.

Thus, in September 2018, I introduced a theory for "Loading for accuracy: The optimum feet per second node ". You find a link for the paper below.

An observation: It was evident from the start, At long range, the vertical dispersion is at minimum when the adjacent loads are linearly increasing and not on a flat spot.

Here is a detailed load development test from a 1/3 MOA rifle at 660 yards, which is done by a third party. This load had a minimum vertical dispersion not on a flat spot, but when adjacent charges are linearly increasing.

Desert Tech SRS

the A2 version in depth review.

www.rifletalks.com

 

[Beiruty]

OFPS Theory:

OFPS Theory.docx

1drv.ms

 

[6bra1k]

IMHO new "theories" are written by people that do not understand the basics of the original LADDER process. once again with over 50 yeas of shooting , i will tell you, without any reservations, the original 20 shot ladder works as designed to assist in finding a workable load PERIOD.

 

[okie]

"An observation: It was evident from the start, At long range, the vertical dispersion is at minimum when the adjacent loads are linearly increasing and not on a flat spot."

explain please

 

[Immike]

Mirage can be involved if you are loading one at a time. I always preload the test.

 

[Beiruty]

IMHO new "theories" are written by people that do not understand the basics of the original LADDER process. once again with over 50 yeas of shooting , i will tell you, without any reservations, the original 20 shot ladder works as designed to assist in finding a workable load PERIOD

Original 1000 yards ladder test

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[Beiruty]

"An observation: It was evident from the start, At long range, the vertical dispersion is at minimum when the adjacent loads are linearly increasing and not on a flat spot."

explain please

Load 10, 11 was selected as a candidate for best vertical dispersion
Load 17 was then selected as another candidate.

Load 17 won and was selected as the best load for this rifle/powder/bullet combo

 

[okie]

Im done...

 

[6bra1k]

a quick search of the internet shows NO SHOOTING related info and the term " Starlett Ladder "....it does show a LADDER company with close to the same name.
no one i know does LOAD DEVELOPMENT at 1000 yards. loads are developed at shorter distances, and then FINE TUNED at 1k.

and there is a world of difference in banging steel large target shooting and benchrest at 600/1000 yds.
( several days later he has changed his opening statement. now he has a proper name, but as was pointed out in a previous thread, his OPINION does not make it a fact..it aint on fire other than burning down)

 

[LRPV]

a quick search of the internet shows NO SHOOTING related info and the term " Starlett Ladder "....it does show a LADDER company with close to the same name.
no one i know does LOAD DEVELOPMENT at 1000 yards. loads are developed at shorter distances, and then FINE TUNED at 1k.

and there is a world of difference in banging steel large target shooting and benchrest at 600/1000 yds.

Hello, I know we aren’t that close but we have met before.

 

[Beiruty]

Here is the deal, please show your load development where being on a flat spot resulted in the lowest dispersion at long range. Fine tune as much as you want as long as you show that your best vertical dispersion load was on a flat spot on the original ladder test

 

[LVLAaron]

Load 10, 11 was selected as a candidate for best vertical dispersion
Load 17 was then selected as another candidate.

Load 17 won and was selected as the best load for this rifle/powder/bullet combo
View attachment 1364222

That's fine and dandy. Does that load work in the cool mornings and hot afternoons? I can pick a load in the "middle of a flat spot", tune it with seating depth etc, and I can trust it's good on a match that starts in 55 degree weather and ends in 90.

 

[Beiruty]

That's fine and dandy. Does that load work in the cool mornings and hot afternoons? I can pick a load in the "middle of a flat spot", tune it with seating depth etc, and I can trust it's good on a match that starts in 55 degree weather and ends in 90.

If you use a temperature stable powder like H4350, the variance of 1% in MV, or 30fps out of 3000fps with very high BC bullets, what do you think the difference in dial up correction would be? Say at 1000 yards, 0.1MRAD or maybe 0.2 MRAD?

225_ELD-M_3000fps_3030fps.xlsx

1drv.ms

 

[Beiruty]

Powder Temp Stability: Hodgdon Extreme vs. IMR Enduron

The goal of this field test was to quantify the temperature stability of the popular Hodgdon H4350 a...

precisionrifleblog.com

 

[Beiruty]

From 25F to 140F, variance of 115F Delta MV is just 25fps
At 40F variance, the MV should not change more than 10fps or so.

 

[newbieshooter]

....
no one i know does LOAD DEVELOPMENT at 1000 yards. loads are developed at shorter distances, and then FINE TUNED at 1k.

several Deep Creek shooters do their load development at 1000 yards ?

 

[6bra1k]

several Deep Creek shooters do their load development at 1000 yards ?

communication is part of the problem with this and many other threads.
i have shot once a year at deep creek since 2015. the guys at deep creek seldom do LOAD DEVELOPMENT for a 6mm 1000 yd rifle. they know most of the basic info, and just have to TUNE, sometime more than a little, to get a rifle to shoot. so IMHO, they tune, not LOAD DEVELPOPMENT.
i built a new 6 dasher and went to 15.5 from 15. i had to start from scratch, do a 20 shot/.2 step ladder, chart and plot and pick a couple of points to try with LOAD DEVELOPMENT then fine TUNE once i was close.
a real 20 shot ladder is a beginning tool of load development, not an end to load development.
a lot of people have missed the big picture

 

[6bra1k]

several Deep Creek shooters do their load development at 1000 yards ?

communication is part of the problem with this and many other threads.
i have shot once a year at deep creek since 2015. the guys at deep creek seldom do LOAD DEVELOPMENT for a 6mm 1000 yd rifle. they know most of the basic info, and just have to TUNE, sometime more than a little, to get a rifle to shoot. so IMHO, they tune, not LOAD DEVELPOPMENT.
i built a new 6 dasher and went to 15.5 from 15. i had to start from scratch, do a 20 shot/.2 step ladder, chart and plot and pick a couple of points to try with LOAD DEVELOPMENT then fine TUNE once i was close.
a real 20 shot ladder is shot at 200/300 yards with all shots logged and charted, it is a beginning tool of load development, not an end to load development.
a lot of people have missed the big picture

 

[Tarmacshooter]

Good grief Charlie Brown….

 

[mikecr]

I see nothing supported in the claims.
For one, powder burn rate is tied to pressure. It feeds on itself. This is well known for over 100yrs.
2nd, I would expect to see MVs directly affected by barrel vibrations in your test, to support your claims.