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A Polite call to tool makers [tray fed hand primer]

Clancy

Silver $$ Contributor
It seems to me that the demand is there for hand priming tools that don’t require handling every primer, but do enable adjustable, precision seating.

It is my understanding that the 21st Century tool was once compatible with trays but has since been discontinued due to the new Lee trays being less desireable.

The next best bet would be the Frankford, but I’m really looking for PMA/KM/21st quality.

Am I missing something in the market, or is this really a need that we need filled?
 
FWIW, I completely agree.
I used the 21st century priming tool with the Lee primer trays. The little elevator just didn't/doesn't work reliably.
I'm currently using the Frankford Arsenal Platinum hand primer. Broadly, it works very well. It is leaving a small semi circular 'ridge' on one edge of the primer after seating it.
 
If someone would make a tray that’d feed my CPS I’d buy it. Might be tough though given the design.
 
I really like the RCBS universal seater but the plastic rectangles that go in the tool that the tray slides into sux. The primers get hung on them a lot and create burrs and deform the plastic. I'm not against Lee but their hand primer that pushes the next primer up then it has to slide into position also sux. If I'm not holding it the correct way it does not slide into position. I'd be interested in a well thought out design.
 
If someone would make a tray that’d feed my CPS I’d buy it. Might be tough though given the design.
If you bought a CPS, I believe you’d buy about anything haha. I’m joking. I’m sure it’s very nice. I might could get past the price if I didn’t have to deal with tubes though-even though I think you’re joking too.
 
I don’t love the tubes. I like the flip tray that feeds primers like the rcbs hand tool.

I use the double alpha vibrating tube loader but I think it should be improved.
 
In all seriousness, I’m not as afraid of a $600 priming tool as I used to be. A box of Bergers is 50 bucks now… But before I hauled off and bought a CPS, I measured my primers I’d seated by feel and they were within the tolerance of the CPS anyway. Maybe I just have good nerves.. I don’t know.

I just think there’s a market for a precision handheld that’s tray fed.
 
I'd buy one if it wasn't ridiculously priced.


I refuse to touch every single primer. Therefore I use the lee hand primer or my 550.
I'd been using a Lee hand primer since the 80's and the Frankford is in a class by itself. The others are flimsy in comparison. Has an adjustment for primer depth and comes with 12 different shellholders, in a very nice storage case. Worth every bit of what it costs.

***Edit - the Frankford is now on sale at midway for $63.99 (what I paid for mine awhile back). A bargain, especially condidering it comes with 12 shellholders, for about every conceivable chambering.
.
 
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I really like the RCBS universal seater but the plastic rectangles that go in the tool that the tray slides into sux. The primers get hung on them a lot and create burrs and deform the plastic. I'm not against Lee but their hand primer that pushes the next primer up then it has to slide into position also sux. If I'm not holding it the correct way it does not slide into position. I'd be interested in a well thought out design.
This is what I use and it is super easy and more than consistent enough to shoot extremely high scores and win
Dave
 
I'd been using a Lee hand primer since the 80's and the Frankford is in a class by itself. The others are flimsy in comparison. Has an adjustment for primer depth and comes with 12 different shellholders, in a very nice storage case. Worth every bit of what it costs.
Completely agree.
Any new entrant would be need to do at least as well as the Frankford Platinum in both ease of use and actual seating.
The Century 21 was great if the Lee primer trays would just work reliably.
 
I have a frankford Arsenal and a rcbs one. I think there’s something wrong with my frankford as the wheel you turn to adjust depth is very flimsy no clicking more like a free spin. I was reloading for my 204r and part way through unnoticed theborimers didn’t seem right. Appears the wheel got turned and didn’t notice it. I took a sharpie and marked it so I know it’s on my preferred selection.
I think I might go back to mt rcbs hand held
 
RCBS should bring back the APS system. I started using this strip-feed system with an RCBS progressive press, and quickly concluded it is superior to vertical feed and far superior to any tray system. The feeding is 100% reliable, there is no chance of flipped primers, and you can just do a few primers (for testing), and then pull the strip out.

Somebody should buy the rights from RCBS and start making these again.

1657485384231.png
1657485450119.png

There was also a benchtop version:

1657485575009.png
 
RCBS should bring back the APS system. I started using this strip-feed system with an RCBS progressive press, and quickly concluded it is superior to vertical feed and far superior to any tray system. The feeding is 100% reliable, there is no chance of flipped primers, and you can just do a few primers (for testing), and then pull the strip out.

Somebody should buy the rights from RCBS and start making these again.

View attachment 1353558
View attachment 1353559

There was also a benchtop version:

View attachment 1353560
RCBS should have put that very nice adjustable lever on their current benchtop tool.
It allowed mounting the tool anywhere, with no need for overhanging the lever below bench level.
The bean counters often have too much influence on products.
 
RCBS should have put that very nice adjustable lever on their current benchtop tool.
It allowed mounting the tool anywhere, with no need for overhanging the lever below bench level.
The bean counters often have too much influence on products.
1E8B330A-2BDC-4EEC-9F19-1D3B60B2B98C.jpegI mounted mine on this bench grinder stand. Really handy to put it in any spot you want it.
 
I think people get a bit OTT about primer handling re human "oils" from finger tips. If I could actually name a time and identify a FTF due to me handling a primer I might have belief in this urban myth. Sure if I put a drip of actual oil onto a primer compound it may FTF but the 1 in 200 primers I inadvertently touch isn't going to do it.
 
I used a Lee Autoprime when I started loading in the mid-80's until a few years ago when it became too worn and I ran out of spare parts. It was finally time to move on. I considered buying a Frankford Arsenal, which is apparently the modern replacement of the old Lee and almost certainly made of better materials.

I used to hand prime everything. However, I now load most handgun rounds on either a progressive or turret press. Except for smaller batches of other handgun rounds, I only manually prime for rifle, which I shoot in much less volume. As I've a read more accounts over the years of primer mishaps including a few with the Claymore mine style primer reservoirs like the old Lee design, I'm less keen on using them. The chances of ever having a problem are very low, but with my luck...

A friend has a 21st Century priming tool, and it's very nicely made. I didn't want to spend that much on a new hand primer and also have to buy new shell holders for it. I already had the Lee Autoprime shell holders, which the K&M tool uses (so does the Frankford), so I bought a basic K&M. It took some getting used to, but priming one at a time isn't so bad. The K&M isn't as nicely finished as the 21st Century, but it's solid and should last a long time.

The OP mentioned "adjustable, precision seating." As for priming precision, I think how to do it best is debatable and depends on the circumstances. Feel vs fixed seating ram depth. Which is better? IMO, it depends. Watch Eric Cortina's interview with Greg from Primal Rights:


Longer version here:

Some good points are made in that interview. Notable is the tight consistency of dimensions of factory (not-uniformed) primer pocket depths to the undersides of case rims in high quality brass (Lapua). In that situation, assuming the primer cups themselves are also of tight tolerance, seating to a fixed depth makes sense. You'd get fairly consistent crush.

K&M has their fancier, complicated tool that measures primer pocket depth, primer height, and then allows you to set to a given amount of crush. I've never used one and won't because such minor differences in primer seating would make no noticeable difference in what I'm doing. However, this is the only setup I've seen that allows one to set primer crush the same on each case even if the primer pockets aren't all exactly the same.

My situation is different than precision shooters using the best quality brass. For .223 I'm using Wolf Gold brass, which is generally good quality in the scheme of things (I'd say on par with or better than Lake City), but certainly nowhere near Lapua in consistency. I can't depend on the distance from the inside of the case rims to the bottoms of the primer pockets being consistent when new. I uniform the primer pockets to prevent having some high primers.

Uniforming sets primer pocket depths consistent with the outside of the case heads, while seating primers with a fixed ram depth seats primers to a point indexed from the inside of the case rims. The difference between the relationship of the inside of the case rim to primer pocket bottom and outside of the case head to primer pocket bottom can be quite different as explained in that interview. In addition, my rims have some minor dings from being extracted from a semi-auto, which could change the relationship of the case within the shell holder.

In my situation I'm better off seating primers by feel to the bottom of the pockets instead of using a priming tool with a fixed ram depth. I don't doubt that primer crush consistency matters when you're eeking out the best precision possible (benchrest, long range precision, etc.). But I think how to attain consistent primer seating varies depending on what components you're using and what you are doing with them. A fixed depth primer seater won't help me, whether it costs $100 or $600. If anything, switching to a fixed primer seating depth while having varying depth primer pockets could make things noticeably worse than seating by feel if the pocket to inside rim dimensions vary enough to cause some primers to not even be contacting the bottom of the pocket.
 
My K&M is smooth as butter but when doing 350 9mm case like I done this past week, I just can't get past not having a tray or a multi primer feed system of some type. I've considered trying the Lee ACP for jobs such as that.
 
I have watched those video interviews by Eric Cortina several times. He has a real down to earth view of gadgets that solve non existent problems.

I often get the feeling that when he is done, his primary thought is……”this guy is full of sh-t”.

By the way, this is what I use. No tray. I simply pick them up and put them in the tool. The little bolt is to keep the handle from coming back any further than I want it too.

crude.

But then, as a Short Range Benchrest Shooter, I load at the range.
 

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