MAJOR Copper Fouling - Why?

[Dusty Stevens]

Any rough spot tears off jacket material and its sprayed and deposited down the barrel. I would short stroke the whole barrel with blue JB and iosso. Dont oil it down and only use a patch for it. Dont worry about intense decoppering until you get the cause fixed

 

[tobnpr]

I shot one shot today and have a ton of copper. Enough to take 6 or 8 hours and as many ounces of copper remover and scrubbing to get out.

This ain't normal.
I don't have these issues with mid-tiers like Shilen and McGowen- for the $$, sure shouldn't happen with Bartlein.
Don't do anything to the barrel until you speak with them.

Did you not discuss this with the smith that chambered it?

 

[FeMan]

This ain't normal.
I don't have these issues with mid-tiers like Shilen and McGowen- for the $$, sure shouldn't happen with Bartlein.
Don't do anything to the barrel until you speak with them.

Did you not discuss this with the smith that chambered it?

I did talk with the smith. He has chambered many Bartliens and had very very few issues with them. He said they were the lowest dud rate for him. He has chambered 25 or so barrels for my wife and I. He pre-bores with a boring bar and this reamer only had a barrel or two on it. He said to talk to Bartlien and I will when they call me back. This is a build for a September hunt for a buddy and I am just feeling pinched for time with all the shortages. I am overdue for a lesson in patience though

I'll try and connect with Bartlien before anything further, but the blue JB and Iosso sounds like the ticket.

I got a picture. Its not high quality but maybe its helpful:

 

[LVLAaron]

eek

 

[DGP4]

Tubb Final Finish kit might be in order. Beats spending 6 hours scrubbing the bore!

 

[L.Sherm]

Tubb Final Finish kit might be in order. Beats spending 6 hours scrubbing the bore!

Bartlien will never take it back if there's a problem running that down the barrel.
If you have to do that on a custom barrel it needs to go back.

 

[FeMan]

Agreed. I've resigned myself to the fact that it is going to have to be sent back. I hope I can get a replacement set and dialed in before the elk hunt!

 

[butchlambert]

It may look beautiful but under high magnification it’s swathes of sharks teeth and it needs 50-100 mike Tyson punches (shots) to knock those teeth out/down.

I usually start a new barrel with a 100 shots at about 100 fps slower than normal to once fire brass and season the barrel and that lower speed seems to minimize copper at the muzzle end.

season the barrel?

 

[tobnpr]

^^^
Did the smith purchase the blank from Bartlein, or did you provide it?
In either case, the pic clearly shows a replacement barrel is in order, and they should have no problem replacing ASAP- and reimbursing the smith for the re-do. Let us know how this works out.

 

[butchlambert]

Tubb Final Finish kit might be in order. Beats spending 6 hours scrubbing the bore!

Never on a custom barrel!!

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Try the jb and iosso on it. I think youll be surprised. You run an abrasive bullet down it you bought it.

 

[DGP4]

Never on a custom barrel!!

Never knew that! I did know they shouldn't need it as they are hand lapped but it looks like his barrel somehow missed that step! I guess returning it to Bartlein is the right move, but from what I have heard he better be prepared for a long wait on a replacement.

 

[SKWERLZ]

season the barrel?

Getting it up to speed.

 

[SKWERLZ]

Never knew that! I did know they shouldn't need it as they are hand lapped but it looks like his barrel somehow missed that step! I guess returning it to Bartlein is the right move, but from what I have heard he better be prepared for a long wait on a replacement.

I’d be shocked if they missed it.

 

[FeMan]

I purchased the blank from Southern Precision.

Try the jb and iosso on it. I think youll be surprised. You run an abrasive bullet down it you bought it.

I am tempted but will talk to Bartlien before I do anything. I am willing to try the JB/ISSO process if they don't feel it voids the warranty. I really want this barrel to work somehow/someway.

 

[FrankG]

Tubb Final Finish kit might be in order. Beats spending 6 hours scrubbing the bore!

You use any Tubb final finish kit in our barrels and any warranty is out the window.

We have no control over what the guy is doing with it, the load, how many rounds fired with etc...

Not just here but even back when I was at Krieger I've seen guys with only firing 6 rounds thru the barrel prematurely wear the throat .030".

I was asked by Tubb at one time to promote the product etc...I said...only if you warranty the barrels!

If you have a problem....I'd prefer you call before you start doing something to the barrel and damage it beyond trying to save it at all.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels.

 

[FrankG]

^^^
Did the smith purchase the blank from Bartlein, or did you provide it?
In either case, the pic clearly shows a replacement barrel is in order, and they should have no problem replacing ASAP- and reimbursing the smith for the re-do. Let us know how this works out.

What you see in that pic might not tell the whole story as to what is going on. Might have nothing to do with the barrel itself.

 

[FrankG]

If the throat is rough from being chambered it will shave extra copper off the bullet. In a instance this copper dust from heat and pressure gets changed into a liquid and is held in suspension and will follow the bullet down the bore...once the liquid copper gets back to the temperature where it turns into a solid....it comes out of suspension and then sticks to the bore.

This also more often happens in longer length barrels but happens in shorter length barrels as well. The longer the length of the barrel is the more time for the copper to turn back to a solid.

Copper fouling can start all the way back at the throat as well.

Have you used those bullets before or is it a new lot? Copper alloys in the jackets can vary and cause fouling as well.

77gr of H1000 I'll say isn't a mild load. Your only one step under a max load per loading data in the books.

I'm running 76gr of H1000 with a 225gr bullet in my 300PRC. Hornady's and Sierras with no issues.

Do you have a copy of the chamber reamer drawing that was used to cut the chamber? That would be nice to see as well.

How many chambers has that reamer cut?

Copper in the grooves usually the barrel isn't effected accuracy wise. Copper building up like plating/in layers on tops of the lands....that is a guaranteed accuracy killer.

Have you shot any groups with it? If not....I'd try another bullet if you have some from a different lot as well. Anyways I'd shoot 20 rounds thru the gun. If the accuracy is good and holds....clean it and shoot it.

If the accuracy is going sour in say about 12-15 rounds...then we/you have to figure out what is going on.

Up to a 100 rounds it might take to settle a barrel in. I say more like 40-60ish range. I remember a 280AI I had back at Krieger. Fouling was really heavy and this was back in the days when I would shoot one round and clean for the first 5 individually. Then I'd shoot 5 groups of 3 and then 5 groups of 5 and clean after each one (too me a waste of time in most cases and don't do that anymore). That barrel fouled bad in the beginning but I noticed that even cleaning after each round fired. Those first 5 rounds went into a little over a .5" group. When that barrel was up around 50 rounds the groups had shrunk to around 1/3moa and the barrel was cleaning easier and easier. That gun would shoot under 1" groups at 300 yards from the prone position off a bipod.

Haven't checked messages on the phone yet. Half the guys in the office are out right now. One of us will try and get a hold of you. Phones and email are busy. Busy isn't the word for it.

I don't normally log into the forums on a regular basis. So this isn't the best place to try and get a hold of us. I didn't stumble on this thread....a good friend told me about it or I would've never seen it.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

 

[FrankG]

Also you didn't use any abrasive cleaner in it with a brush at all did you?

 

[DGP4]

You use any Tubb final finish kit in our barrels and any warranty is out the window.

We have no control over what the guy is doing with it, the load, how many rounds fired with etc...

Not just here but even back when I was at Krieger I've seen guys with only firing 6 rounds thru the barrel prematurely wear the throat .030".

I was asked by Tubb at one time to promote the product etc...I said...only if you warranty the barrels!

If you have a problem....I'd prefer you call before you start doing something to the barrel and damage it beyond trying to save it at all.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels.

Well, I had no idea barrel makers had such a poor view of the Tubb products! I had seen a lot of people promoting them so I thought they were generally viewed as a good lapping method, albeit on factory barrels. I guess not!