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The army is adopting a new rifle and cartridge

I watched a forgotten weapons vid the other day and it seems that the only time the soldier will use the 80,000 psi ammo is in a real shooting war. All target range and training will be with 50,000-60,000 psi practice ammo. The M16 was developed so the soldier could have a lighter rifle and carry more ammo now they are back to ammo that weights the same as 308win and a rifle that weights over 11 lbs. Are these new guys stronger than they were in the 60s 70s and 80s?
not a problem we have women now, buff women, some I have seen and met they have impressed me
 
Old news. photos of the new round or case, metal base with co-polymor body is out and being used, by some military, from what is shown.
Remember the FMJ was put into military, under rules out of the Geneva Convention ( I believe) and the object was to wound and cause 2-3 men to care for the wounded, where as if a soldier was killed one might have to stop.
Don't believe the new round and caliber is in full use yet, by the military.
 
Kind of related - The Army figured out after combat in the Philippines that a large bore cartridge is a vastly more effective pistol cartridge so when they enter WWI, they had the 1911 with the 45 ACP which by all accounts was extremely effective. Ditto, WWII etc.

I was amused when the Army switched to the 9mm to accept the standard NATO round. When I was in the Army, the 1911 / 45 ACP was still the cartridge. Eventually law enforcement tactical teams realized the same thing and adopted the 45 ACP until the 40 S&W became the standard for law enforcement after the FBI got out gunned with 38 caliber pistols in a shootout in Miami.

Bottom, line, not surprising to see the Army drifting back to a larger caliber rifle.
 
The army should’ve consulted us on accurate shooter before committing their tomfoolery

We would have our fightin’ boys shooting 6BR out of stiller viper drop ports. Who needs one of them ass-halt rifles anyway. Just a waste of ammo.
 
If the M14 (abt 10+ lbs) was less than manageable all up w a 20 rd mag, what do they think a short bbl, light framed weapon will do w the velocity jacked up will do?
Muzzle blast from that specified short bbl will need to be reckoned with....accuracy potential of the shooter will be hampered. For every action there is an opposite and equal reaction - then factor in noise and muzzle blast as tangible detriments.
Out tax dollars in action.
Mothers are raising 'wussies' that can't stand a little recoil!!
 
Latest I read about this new rifle and cartridge is there is some kind of hold on the production of the Sig rifle because of something regarding the contract between Sig and the military.

Another oddity is even though Sig develoed the cartridge who Sig has the production capabilities to manufacture the both lower chamber pressure training and higher chamber pressure combat ammunition, Winchester who currently owners the contract to produce U.S. military small arms ammunition will be producing both cartridges.

I don’t remember what the Sig/government agreed first production batch of rifles is, which is a lot, the current understanding is to initially issue the rifle too a SOCOM unit or a designated marksman in a squad or platoon.

As for this totally new 6.8x51 cartridge, I cannot foresee as a total replacement of 5.56 NATO cartridge as this would require all of the NATO Countries to switch to the 6.8 with all new rifles. Even if the NATO Countries were to comply with maybe using the lower chamber pressure cartridge, it would still need a rifle that can operate with the 6.8 which is basically a 7.62x51 OAL. So in essence a AR10 size rifle. So I would have to believe this new rifle and cartridge would be for select military unit special weapon or a designated marksman weapon.

As for the cartridge bullet design intention is to defeat/penetrate the current body armor of the Russian and Chinese. The Forgotten Weapons guy and a buddy of his used to share another YouTube channel called “In Range“, and it was last year if my memory is correct, they obtained a plate of the current Russian body armor and shot it with current U.S military issued 5.56 and 7.62 at several distances, several times, and with all bullets fired, not one did a full penetration.

Another interesting points about the rifle is the barrel is 13”, and the rifle is intended too use a suppressor which is actually 3D printed metal. Another feature of the rifle is a rather simplified barrel change that although would be performed by a armor is done with a couple different size Allen wrenchs. The operation controls such as the selector, mag release are standard AR/M4 pattern and locations with a ambidextrous bolt release. The trigger and hammer are straight up AR/M4. There is a standard AR/M4 type ambidextrous ”T” style charging handle with a separate non reciprocating charging lever on the left side of the upper receiver that folds flat. There is the obligatory forward assist which is located just behind the cartridge case deflector, which the deflector has a replaceable steel insert secured with a single roll pin. The folding butt stock is kind of not well designed in that it doesn’t lock when folded and the adjustable butt portion needs too be full retracted but not totally necessary, which as it rests against the side changing lever. But then the folding butt stock is more about making the rifle more compact for a solider riding a APC. By it not locking in the folded position makes for a faster deployment as the solider egresses a vehicle. The short stroke oprod gas system is rather simple and relatively easy to clean, but the only potential weak point, in my opinion, is the attachment of the oprod too the BCG.

It’s a rather interesting design of both rifle and cartridge. With Sig development of a standard all brass cartridge case, I can foresee this cartridge as the latest 277 Sic Fury “Wonder Cartridge” for civilians to play with as the only 27 caliber cartridges such as venerable 270 Winchester, followed by the 270 Weatherby, and later the Remington 6.8 SPC, a failed attempt for a more powerful AR/M4 cartridge. Then came the 270 WSM along with the later followup of the 27 Nosler. So reloaders rejoice as all the bullet manufacturers will have a plethora of new 27 caliber VLD bullets to play with and discover the magical properties of the long neglected, and very lonely 27 caliber as it gets a new lease on life. Taking bets on how many show at next year’s Berger Southwest Nationals with rifles chambered in 277 Sig Fury.
 
Practice more on stealth....and put all those .22 40xs back into use! Shoot closer, not harder is my motto!
 
Not surprised. I have long wondered why the military uses a cartridge that is available to the huddled masses.
 
Latest I read about this new rifle and cartridge is there is some kind of hold on the production of the Sig rifle because of something regarding the contract between Sig and the military.

Another oddity is even though Sig develoed the cartridge who Sig has the production capabilities to manufacture the both lower chamber pressure training and higher chamber pressure combat ammunition, Winchester who currently owners the contract to produce U.S. military small arms ammunition will be producing both cartridges.

I don’t remember what the Sig/government agreed first production batch of rifles is, which is a lot, the current understanding is to initially issue the rifle too a SOCOM unit or a designated marksman in a squad or platoon.

As for this totally new 6.8x51 cartridge, I cannot foresee as a total replacement of 5.56 NATO cartridge as this would require all of the NATO Countries to switch to the 6.8 with all new rifles. Even if the NATO Countries were to comply with maybe using the lower chamber pressure cartridge, it would still need a rifle that can operate with the 6.8 which is basically a 7.62x51 OAL. So in essence a AR10 size rifle. So I would have to believe this new rifle and cartridge would be for select military unit special weapon or a designated marksman weapon.

As for the cartridge bullet design intention is to defeat/penetrate the current body armor of the Russian and Chinese. The Forgotten Weapons guy and a buddy of his used to share another YouTube channel called “In Range“, and it was last year if my memory is correct, they obtained a plate of the current Russian body armor and shot it with current U.S military issued 5.56 and 7.62 at several distances, several times, and with all bullets fired, not one did a full penetration.

Another interesting points about the rifle is the barrel is 13”, and the rifle is intended too use a suppressor which is actually 3D printed metal. Another feature of the rifle is a rather simplified barrel change that although would be performed by a armor is done with a couple different size Allen wrenchs. The operation controls such as the selector, mag release are standard AR/M4 pattern and locations with a ambidextrous bolt release. The trigger and hammer are straight up AR/M4. There is a standard AR/M4 type ambidextrous ”T” style charging handle with a separate non reciprocating charging lever on the left side of the upper receiver that folds flat. There is the obligatory forward assist which is located just behind the cartridge case deflector, which the deflector has a replaceable steel insert secured with a single roll pin. The folding butt stock is kind of not well designed in that it doesn’t lock when folded and the adjustable butt portion needs too be full retracted but not totally necessary, which as it rests against the side changing lever. But then the folding butt stock is more about making the rifle more compact for a solider riding a APC. By it not locking in the folded position makes for a faster deployment as the solider egresses a vehicle. The short stroke oprod gas system is rather simple and relatively easy to clean, but the only potential weak point, in my opinion, is the attachment of the oprod too the BCG.

It’s a rather interesting design of both rifle and cartridge. With Sig development of a standard all brass cartridge case, I can foresee this cartridge as the latest 277 Sic Fury “Wonder Cartridge” for civilians to play with as the only 27 caliber cartridges such as venerable 270 Winchester, followed by the 270 Weatherby, and later the Remington 6.8 SPC, a failed attempt for a more powerful AR/M4 cartridge. Then came the 270 WSM along with the later followup of the 27 Nosler. So reloaders rejoice as all the bullet manufacturers will have a plethora of new 27 caliber VLD bullets to play with and discover the magical properties of the long neglected, and very lonely 27 caliber as it gets a new lease on life. Taking bets on how many show at next year’s Berger Southwest Nationals with rifles chambered in 277 Sig Fury.
I think most nato countries already use a 7.62x51 size rifle, “the right arm of the free world” the FAL rifle. So conversion is simple for everybody but us. We will spend mucho billions to resist a proven design and retool everything.
 
It gives me indigestion when any great equipment changes are made during the current leftist administration. Obama gutted the ranking military command officers years ago. Now we have the likes of Milley and Austin. What could go wrong?
 
Mothers are raising 'wussies' that can't stand a little recoil!!
The problem may be that fewer recruits grew up shooting. I did some shooting with 3 scout sniper teams (6 total Marines) only one of the 6 Marines had shot much prior to signing up. All of the scout snipers made up for lost time as they were very skilled shooters and in general very capable young men.
 
The problem may be that fewer recruits grew up shooting. I did some shooting with 3 scout sniper teams (6 total Marines) only one of the 6 Marines had shot much prior to signing up. All of the scout snipers made up for lost time as they were very skilled shooters and in general very capable young men.
Goes to great training.
 
Do you think they really with switch over. Remember the attempt to us the 6.8 SPC, it started and then the military gave it up. Could be the same with this attempt of the new .277, which is basically the same, but with the different case, to save weight, more than anything.
 

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