Would you shoot these brass

[hoz53]

I would toss these into a scrap bucket, but save them for a rainy day. You never know with the idiots in charge.

thats just what i did thanks

 

[AckleymanII]

Those dents look like they are from a vent hole that is covered with the die ring, not allowing the air to escape. If you had enough lube on the case to cause dents that bad, it would be dripping off the bottom of the die in the press!

My worry on brass like that is that it may have stress lines in it that may eventually fail you.

Some of that brass would not even hold a full charge of powder, and it may spike pressures.

Tiny dents are one thing, but these dents are HUGE!

 

[hoz53]

The work involved in reloading them only to find out they don't chamber puts me in the scrap bucket column. Brass is bringing better prices at the scrap yard these days.

yeah ive got so much 223, i dont even pick it up anymore. im sure youve got a “little” also….. i really was never planning on using them anyway——-it just came out that way I guess. happy easter

 

[jepp2]

The scratches are from the extension and all AR rifles do this.

If left as is they will. I take a round ceramic medium rod (used in the knife sharpening system) and slightly "blunt" the tips of the two barrel extension locking lugs the case contacts on the ejection. I also shorten my ejector spring a few coils (starting with a new chrome silicon spring) that I have learned from trial and error. Pretty much eliminates the marks. Learned the true impact during a case life test where the brass lasted 24-35 firings in an AR. And all but 2 were retired due to the pic below.

I like imperial for case sizing but it is too labor intensive for large batch sizing. Using Bootleg with a 12:1 ratio, I have never, never experience a lube dent no matter how much you soak them with. At 6:1 if I sprayed them very heavy, I would get a very light dent.

Your case lube dents are severe enough they have stressed the brass beyond normal firing/sizing work hardening. Even though I don't feel using the brass is a serious safety issue (since they are in the front 20% of the brass and if a crack were to occur the case should seal and protect the shooter for the most part) I would toss them and call it experience. My only question is why did so many get dented that badly?

 

[hoz53]

Those dents look like they are from a vent hole that is covered with the die ring, not allowing the air to escape. If you had enough lube on the case to cause dents that bad, it would be dripping off the bottom of the die in the press!

My worry on brass like that is that it may have stress lines in it that may eventually fail you.

Some of that brass would not even hold a full charge of powder, and it may spike pressures.

Tiny dents are one thing, but these dents are HUGE!

this is good info and really what i was looking for. i really wasnt thinking about using the brass in the pic per se —- but i used them for the pic and was thinking about the times i get dents in premium brass ive paid a relatively lot for. i just wondered if those kind of dents would change the brass going forward compared to others in the bunch from an accuracy point of view. Im going with not using them again for accuracy loads if they get dents like that. fortuneately i very seldom get dents in my good brass. these just happened when i was processing a bunch of 223 and used an alternate lube to see what would happen. the vent hole plugging sounds like a likely culprit. thanks aand happy easter

 

[hoz53]

If left as is they will. I take a round ceramic medium rod (used in the knife sharpening system) and slightly "blunt" the tips of the two barrel extension locking lugs the case contacts on the ejection. I also shorten my ejector spring a few coils (starting with a new chrome silicon spring) that I have learned from trial and error. Pretty much eliminates the marks. Learned the true impact during a case life test where the brass lasted 24-35 firings in an AR. And all but 2 were retired due to the pic below.

I like imperial for case sizing but it is too labor intensive for large batch sizing. Using Bootleg with a 12:1 ratio, I have never, never experience a lube dent no matter how much you soak them with. At 6:1 if I sprayed them very heavy, I would get a very light dent.

Your case lube dents are severe enough they have stressed the brass beyond normal firing/sizing work hardening. Even though I don't feel using the brass is a serious safety issue (since they are in the front 20% of the brass and if a crack were to occur the case should seal and protect the shooter for the most part) I would toss them and call it experience. My only question is why did so many get dented that badly?

View attachment 1334433

Hi Jepp— Its good to hear from you…. Thats good info about the scratches in the brass and even though Im not planning on 25 plus loadings on any of my 223 brass, I will check my brass and my guns and make the mod you mentioned.

I use imperial to with about all of my rifle loading except bulk loading 223, which ive been doing recently. I used one shot with no problems for several thousand rounds. What is bootleg?? Id like to look into that. The brass in the pic are free range pic up that I never intended to use after the dents except mabie to see how the dents are blown out. never had that many dents at once. I know from past dents that they would be gone after firing and its always surprised me a little how they come out. reminds one of the tremendous heat and force that happens in the chamber.

the dents happened when i ran out of one shot one night and i thought— what the heck ill use some ballistol i had handy on the bench and see what happens to these junk brass. didnt feel i had much to lose. i was sizing at a pretty good pace and the cases were sizing easy. i found the dents next day when i inspected the brass. they must have formed on the side of the brass away from where i was for me not to have noticed them rite away. i was spraying the ballistol on pretty heavy — after i found the dents i sprayed some ballistol on some brass- wiped it around with my fingers and sized it and there were no dents doing several this way. thanks and happy easter

 

[hoz53]

Liquid is the only kind of lube I have ever gotten dents.... If you're doing thousands at a time I never have used it but I think that I would try Hornady one shot stuff....

I have gotten dents with imperial and others when i get to much on the shoulder. especially this is true then forming to a different caliber. i use imperial for most rifle brass sizing where Im sizing relatively small amounts like 10 to 50 or so - for my bulk 223 loading i have been using one shot which worked good. these dents didnt happen with that. thanks

 

[jepp2]

What is bootleg??

Liquid lanolin mixed with (I use Iso Heet, some use 99% isopropyl alcohol). Same thing as DCL I hear (Dillon case lube). The only thing I use different than Gavin does, is I heat up my lanolin to around 120 degrees. Mixes better with the solvent (watch how he is like mixing honey and water in his video).

For case forming I find Bootleg actually works better than Imperial (don't hate on me too much) and it is very easy to remove. I just toss the cases in a vibratory blender for 30 minutes with 20-40 plain corn cob. Nothing in the flash holes.

I do line mine up on a cooked sheet, spray them and roll them around. Others apply it differently, but my way applies it VERY uniformly. I've tried several other ways. Used 5W-20 synthetic motor oil for a few years.

Gavin's link

Mine lined up for lubing. Just the right amount for my tumbler, and a way I keep count when doing thousands.

 

[jepp2]

Thats good info about the scratches in the brass and even though Im not planning on 25 plus loadings on any of my 223 brass

I try to baby my Lapua brass I use in the Krieger barreled AR. Shoots pretty good. I told a buddy my gas gun just might outshoot his pride and joy bolt gun (.243). So we shot at 100m and he didn't take it very well.

 

[hoz53]

I might be able to help you with your resizing lube dilemma . Do You have Nitrile or Latex disposable gloves ?. I use Boeshield T9 as a case lube and have for better than 30 years now ,so a Spray lube similar to one shot . I use a shallow cardboard box 1.5" sides and I layout two rows side by side ,so perhaos #50-60 cases , I leave #4 short of going side to side in the box ,so I can roll them as an entire column to get even spray on other side . OK this works so slick I should have patented it . With case feed hand wear a glove reach into box wipe 10-30 cases with thumb and forefinger ,so as to spread lube evenly ,excess goes on glove and I simply use that hand too rub all of MY cases . I NEVER dent shoulders or have resizing issues !. **

Never meaning since I started wearing a nitrile glove and use lube .

** I'm still experimenting with Not using any lube and to date #42 is MY record before sticking a case . M60
oversized 7.62x51mm cases off a gunslinger aka out of a Helicopter .
I also have Dies with various special coatings which aid My Not using lube by design .

Hi DocC— Im not having a sizing dilemma, but i can always learn something so i appreciate your post. is that boreshield T9? ill check into it.

i like your idea with the cardboard box and glove. I will try that. then if the cardboard gets crudded up just throw it away and get another- no big loss.

what are the coatings you use in your dies? I wonder how they do it in the ammo factorys. (size). i need to take a few factory tours.

M60 brass must be from the old days.

thanks

 

[DocCarbon]

Hi DocC— Im not having a sizing dilemma, but i can always learn something so i appreciate your post. is that boreshield T9? ill check into it.

i like your idea with the cardboard box and glove. I will try that. then if the cardboard gets crudded up just throw it away and get another- no big loss.

what are the coatings you use in your dies? I wonder how they do it in the ammo factorys. (size). i need to take a few factory tours.

M60 brass must be from the old days.

thanks

No ; It's Boeshield T9 developed by the Boeing Company as a dry lubricant . Excess lube causes problems as does too little ,just trying to see if My method could help reduce your possible shoulder denting and I do realize some of the pics were Range fodder .

I've been using the same cardboard box for at least #10 years now ,it doesn't get as fouled up as you might think . The Glove does two things keeps your hands cleaner and does distribute lube evenly on cartridge .

I've got multiple Dies with several different tyeps of coatings ,so as to experiment with what works best .
The Most promising material is problematic in application ,as it's near Diamond hardness and twice as slick as PTFE a most unusual combination I assure You ,however we're working on perfecting it's dispersion inside such a small cylinder . The Material is BAM by trade name and chemically known as AlMgB14 .

It's complicated to apply inside a small cylindrical object such as a tube or Die body . Requires pulsed laser deposition by one method . Application thickness is 2-4 micron making it PERFECT for close tolerance applied coatings . I'm now in the stage , IF supplies can be had to coat other parts and evaluate their performances . Shear is the Biggest detriment too ALL other coatings ,they work Great for a short period ,then one notices significant lack of performance after XXX amount of cycles . BAM WILL be the GAME CHANGER ,for so many applications within the shooting industry .

Imagine a chamber or and barrel lasting 20 50 or more , times longer !. It's akin to what Tungsten Carbide did for the cutting industry or TIN has done for coating cutting surfaces ,except MUCH MUCH BETTER with wear-ability of DIAMOND .

M60 Doorslinger fodder is MY slang for auto 7.62x51mm out of a Helicopter , because of it's head stamps more than likely an M240 M249 M60E4 or even newest M60E6 ?. I have NO way of knowing other than where and Who procured the empties for ME and I DIDN'T ask . Just Very grateful to have Gotten them .

I do have M1 & M2 30.cal. cases from 1943 44 are MY oldest as well as 7.62x51mm from 1953 54 56 according to headstamps . I along with a couple of others ,found a discarded WWll and Korean war abandoned Military range brass dump ,Not on Military reservation property . That brass is some of the Toughest Brass I've ever processed and after returning ductility or malleability ,to the neck and shoulder and so far it's returned #10 Gas gun reloading cycles , with NO sign of failure . GOOD STUFF !.

 

[hoz53]

No ; It's Boeshield T9 developed by the Boeing Company as a dry lubricant . Excess lube causes problems as does too little ,just trying to see if My method could help reduce your possible shoulder denting and I do realize some of the pics were Range fodder .

I've been using the same cardboard box for at least #10 years now ,it doesn't get as fouled up as you might think . The Glove does two things keeps your hands cleaner and does distribute lube evenly on cartridge .

I've got multiple Dies with several different tyeps of coatings ,so as to experiment with what works best .
The Most promising material is problematic in application ,as it's near Diamond hardness and twice as slick as PTFE a most unusual combination I assure You ,however we're working on perfecting it's dispersion inside such a small cylinder . The Material is BAM by trade name and chemically known as AlMgB14 .

It's complicated to apply inside a small cylindrical object such as a tube or Die body . Requires pulsed laser deposition by one method . Application thickness is 2-4 micron making it PERFECT for close tolerance applied coatings . I'm now in the stage , IF supplies can be had to coat other parts and evaluate their performances . Shear is the Biggest detriment too ALL other coatings ,they work Great for a short period ,then one notices significant lack of performance after XXX amount of cycles . BAM WILL be the GAME CHANGER ,for so many applications within the shooting industry .

Imagine a chamber or and barrel lasting 20 50 or more , times longer !. It's akin to what Tungsten Carbide did for the cutting industry or TIN has done for coating cutting surfaces ,except MUCH MUCH BETTER with wear-ability of DIAMOND .

M60 Doorslinger fodder is MY slang for auto 7.62x51mm out of a Helicopter , because of it's head stamps more than likely an M240 M249 M60E4 or even newest M60E6 ?. I have NO way of knowing other than where and Who procured the empties for ME and I DIDN'T ask . Just Very grateful to have Gotten them .

I do have M1 & M2 30.cal. cases from 1943 44 are MY oldest as well as 7.62x51mm from 1953 54 56 according to headstamps . I along with a couple of others ,found a discarded WWll and Korean war abandoned Military range brass dump ,Not on Military reservation property . That brass is some of the Toughest Brass I've ever processed and after returning ductility or malleability ,to the neck and shoulder and so far it's returned #10 Gas gun reloading cycles , with NO sign of failure . GOOD STUFF !.

thanks for all that info

 

[AckleymanII]

Pro blend assembly lube is fantastic for full length sizing. I put a couple of drops behind the sizing die on the top of the press. Moisten your fingers every 10 or so cases by just catching the edge of the tiny puddle on top of the press. Just keep your fingers moist with the Pro Blend, and you will never stick a case...ever.

Amazon.com: Pro-Blend ASSEM LUBE : Automotive

Buy Pro-Blend ASSEM LUBE: Automotive - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

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Jepps advise is spot on for sizing large amount of cases. Those large cookie sheets are sold at Cosco and Sams, spray them, roll them back and forth on the cookie sheet. His recipe for Heet is dead nuts!

 

[Dave M.]

Ive had dented shoulders once in awhile for a long time. I know its generally caused by to much lube on the shoulder. Ive shot some of these in the past and the dents always have been blown out with no apparent harm to the case and no holes or splits in the cases.
these i will scrap as they are just mixed 223 range brass. I dont have any trouble sizing brass without dents but ive just always wondered if i get one how it changes the case compared to cases that never had a dent. these days i scrap even lapua if i get a shoulder dent when sizing.

EDIT::: I see by answers to this thread that i didnt explain myself in the original posting very well. Im sorry about that and i have changed the original to try to do this. Thanks to all who have answered.
View attachment 1334022

Come on, seriously?? No way these dents are from too much lube, right? These were stepped on or driven over. If these dents truly are from sizing, you must go through Imperial die wax like a 16 year old goes through Jergens.
Dave

 

[Dave M.]

You said that when you shoot these, the dents are blown out. How many times are you doing this per case? Someone jump in and correct me if I’m overthinking this, but wouldn’t that be weakening the brass in that particular spot? I’m thinking about when you bend a metal hanger back and forth, eventually the molecular structure of the metal changes and it breaks. Like JSH said, it’s cheap brass, why gamble?

True without annealing

 

[hoz53]

Liquid lanolin mixed with (I use Iso Heet, some use 99% isopropyl alcohol). Same thing as DCL I hear (Dillon case lube). The only thing I use different than Gavin does, is I heat up my lanolin to around 120 degrees. Mixes better with the solvent (watch how he is like mixing honey and water in his video).

For case forming I find Bootleg actually works better than Imperial (don't hate on me too much) and it is very easy to remove. I just toss the cases in a vibratory blender for 30 minutes with 20-40 plain corn cob. Nothing in the flash holes.

I do line mine up on a cooked sheet, spray them and roll them around. Others apply it differently, but my way applies it VERY uniformly. I've tried several other ways. Used 5W-20 synthetic motor oil for a few years.

Gavin's link

Mine lined up for lubing. Just the right amount for my tumbler, and a way I keep count when doing thousands.
View attachment 1334441

So you only heat it the one time you first mix it? Im gonna try some of this out. Couldnt get the lanolin today but ill get some soon. sounds like it will be a good deal. Ive got the vibratory tumblers all ready i use to clean lube off. thats the Heet thats the gas additive??
Thanks Jepp for the info on this. ill keep you informed.

 

[hoz53]

Pro blend assembly lube is fantastic for full length sizing. I put a couple of drops behind the sizing die on the top of the press. Moisten your fingers every 10 or so cases by just catching the edge of the tiny puddle on top of the press. Just keep your fingers moist with the Pro Blend, and you will never stick a case...ever.

Amazon.com: Pro-Blend ASSEM LUBE : Automotive

Buy Pro-Blend ASSEM LUBE: Automotive - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

Jepps advise is spot on for sizing large amount of cases. Those large cookie sheets are sold at Cosco and Sams, spray them, roll them back and forth on the cookie sheet. His recipe for Heet is dead nuts!

i believe that— im gonna try it — thanks. ill look at the pro blend to

 

[jepp2]

So you only heat it the one time you first mix it?

Yes. I just heat a pan of water on the stove to around 160 degrees, turn the burner off and set the bottle in the pan of water. Cap loosened slightly.

There is the red bottle Heet (Iso) and the yellow bottle. You want the red if you use Heet.

The only issue I ever encountered was the first time I size some belted mag cases. Didn't think about the belt keeping the case from contacting the pan to get fully coated. Not even necessary to let the alcohol evaporate before you start sizing. Most forgiving lube I ever used.

Just shake it before you spray.

 

[hoz53]

Yes. I just heat a pan of water on the stove to around 160 degrees, turn the burner off and set the bottle in the pan of water. Cap loosened slightly.

There is the red bottle Heet (Iso) and the yellow bottle. You want the red if you use Heet.

The only issue I ever encountered was the first time I size some belted mag cases. Didn't think about the belt keeping the case from contacting the pan to get fully coated. Not even necessary to let the alcohol evaporate before you start sizing. Most forgiving lube I ever used.

Just shake it before you spray.

thanks again

 

[hoz53]

So we shot at 100m and he didn't take it very well.
View attachment 1334451

LOL I luv this^ thats a great shooting AR. havent been able to get any of my ARs to shoot that good but i havent put any together with a premium barrel either. thats on my short list of next guns. thanks