Vudoo V22 Breakin

[Dusty Stevens]

Dusty, I've never tried to run any of my old WW Super-X or Federal Hi-power HV ammo through any of my Vudoo repeaters, all of which but one were chambered with my EPS reamer. The one exception is one I bought as a bbl'd action direct from VGW, which I assume has their Ravage chamber. As far as that goes, I've never ran ANY copper-washed ammo through any of my custom barreled rifles, which include a couple of 40X repeaters converted to use V22 mags, a Stiller 2500XR, a couple of CZ457s with Shilen ratchets, and a Rim-X. Always seemed almost like a sacrilege to put that stuff through a custom barrel that I'd paid good money for, and worked to fit & chamber...lol Still, extraordinary times lead to extraordinary measures - or so they say.

Ive never ran the copper washed either, i have a bunch of remington target ammo i was planning to use.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I'm just curious, many times barrel condition comes in to play with groups shifting slightly with lubricated lead bullets. Is this taken into consideration?

It looks like some of your 1st and last groups are very similar in size as how do you pick the spot in your tuner to stick with?.
I'm asking because I tore the tuner off of my bench rifle because I was getting intermittent results with settings .it was probably me not understanding how it should work.

There are differences in how different tuners affect group shapes and size as well as how far between sweet spots. If you have my tuner, I'll be happy to walk you through the whole process along with the why's and what for's involved. If it's someone else's tuner, there are simply too many variables for me to instruct someone to use every specific tuner out there. I posted that pic because it shows so clearly, the distinct sine wave pattern representing bbl movement on the target.
Contrary to a common myth out there, there is no one tuner setting that shoots all ammo best, with any tuner. The pic is of a test that shows groups shape, size and poi changes. That's what I base my setting on, for a given lot of ammo and conditions. I look for repeatable and predictable results on both sides of what appears to be a sweet spot. This target is a great example of the sine way but just good at showing the group shapes that I look for. It's good enough to at least see a couple of settings to re-test. Different tuners do yield slightly different results in this regard. The key is to quantify the value of each setting on target, between completely in tune to completely out of tune. That goes for any tuner. If you don't know the value of each mark, you have no way of knowing what to do other than randomly moving it. I promise this...random movement will yield random results. With any tuner, you have to be very methodical or you wind up chasing your tail and frustrated. That's when you take it off, out of frustration.

 

[mattt]

Mike Ezells tuners and method of tuning flat out work. finished 15 on unlimited list ir 50/50 last year and currently number 1 early in a long season shooting my vudoo single shot.

 

[Ccrider]

Mike Ezells tuners and method of tuning flat out work. finished 15 on unlimited list ir 50/50 last year and currently number 1 early in a long season shooting my vudoo single shot.

No doubt about this. My issue for sure is not the tuner. I am comfortable with using the tuner and know that it can only help so much. Nor is it the wind at 100. I use wind flags. It is likely the ammo. Someone posted earlier that you cannot outshoot the ammo. I bet that has been proven more than once.

I am not concerned nor am I trying to buck what is already known. I just need to get enough shots down the barrel to be comfortable sending the gun to the test center. I do have some better (Center X) ammo and will shoot it some next just to see how much better it shoots. I expect it to shoot better than the Federal.

 

[mattt]

easy button buy eley 10x and be done with it no test tunnel required .

 

[Ccrider]

Decided to answer some questions and wanted to se the difference between cheap ammo and good ammo in this gun so I did two things. I moved in to 50 yards and pulled out some of the Center X ammo I purchased.

The wind was switching and gusting but I was careful and only got caught in a couple of switches. 5 shot groups at 50 yards adjusting the tuner 2 marks each group:

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Decided to answer some questions and wanted to se the difference between cheap ammo and good ammo in this gun so I did two things. I moved in to 50 yards and pulled out some of the Center X ammo I purchased.

The wind was switching and gusting but I was careful and only got caught in a couple of switches. 5 shot groups at 50 yards adjusting the tuner 2 marks each group:
View attachment 1332647View attachment 1332648View attachment 1332658

I wonder if you just reversed it and went back to two if the groups would repeat. Thats the only meaningful test in my book. I gotta have repeatability

 

[USMCDOC]

Decided to answer some questions and wanted to se the difference between cheap ammo and good ammo in this gun so I did two things. I moved in to 50 yards and pulled out some of the Center X ammo I purchased.

The wind was switching and gusting but I was careful and only got caught in a couple of switches. 5 shot groups at 50 yards adjusting the tuner 2 marks each group:
View attachment 1332647View attachment 1332648View attachment 1332658

I def would be trying 12 again for sure.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Decided to answer some questions and wanted to se the difference between cheap ammo and good ammo in this gun so I did two things. I moved in to 50 yards and pulled out some of the Center X ammo I purchased.

The wind was switching and gusting but I was careful and only got caught in a couple of switches. 5 shot groups at 50 yards adjusting the tuner 2 marks each group:
View attachment 1332647View attachment 1332648View attachment 1332658

Pretty classic results and thanks for posting them. I'd like to see what it does at about 26 and 28 as well. 12 looks good but hard to see the bbl swing. Not sure if 12 is at top or bottom. My bet is it shoots small again at 26 or 28 (assuming same conditions)and you'll see a more clear difference in poi between say 28 and 12. Thanks for doing this.

 

[Ccrider]

Pretty classic results and thanks for posting them. I'd like to see what it does at about 26 and 28 as well. 12 looks good but hard to see the bbl swing. Not sure if 12 is at top or bottom. My bet is it shoots small again at 26 or 28 (assuming same conditions)and you'll see a more clear difference in poi between say 28 and 12. Thanks for doing this.

You are welcome Mike. I felt obligated after posting the predictable bad results using the bad ammo and the concern it raised. I will finish out the cycle and see what it looks like. Dark caught me and I had to quit.

 

[jpx2rk]

Would trying the tuner at 11 or 13 be worth the ammo to see any better or worse???

 

[mattt]

when I used Mikes method it was 3 shots per 2 clicks i think .Well when I revisited the best one it was the best bingo easy button. Will run test again this week end as I am starting in on new case of 10 x. Curios if same setting is best as fps is same on new 10x

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

when I used Mikes method it was 3 shots per 2 clicks i think .Well when I revisited the best one it was the best bingo easy button. Will run test again this week end as I am starting in on new case of 10 x. Curios if same setting is best as fps is same on new 10x

Can't count on mv alone because there can be different in bore times that give different starting pressures, etc, but yield the same speed at the muzzle. But you'll never be very far from back in tune. On the typical rf br rifle, that can be about 8-10 marks ON MY TUNER, but that's pretty much max, so way less than one full revolution. Cf is even closer between sweet spots.

 

[Ccrider]

Been busy at work but itching to shoot the V22 some more. Rushed in this afternoon and got a few more rounds off. The more I shoot with a chassis, the more comfortable I am getting.

I had cleaned the barrel and was not sure how long it would take to settle down. I shot 10 shots at the 24 tuner setting to see how bad it would be after cleaning. I had one flier and was well satisfied with the next nine. (Top row right) targets) After that I shot 5 at 26 and 28. Then at 30 I had a flier the first shot and decided to empty the clip. The next nine grouped quite well. I wanted to see if it was a fluke or if I was close to tune so I moved 2 notches to zero and shot ten more. Another nice group.

I dropped back down to the middle targets and decided to shoot the setting back from 24 as suggested by Dusty. 5 shot groups. I was racing darkness and will reshoot 16 and 14 when I finish this out. Here is the target:

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Thats what i wanted you to see. If you was on the tune and no outside factors affected you (wind, rest setup, gun, you) then the groups would be exactly the same at the same number. Instead you have vertical and horizontal spreads at the same number- this is why once you think you have a fantastic setting see if another one looks the same. Id shoot 2 to 3 shot groups until it gets right. Putting 10 in a bad group aint going to help it, and id shoot 1 shot at a time at a horizontal grid twisting out until you see a sine wave that actually repeats poi then shoot some groups in the middle of those settings

 

[Ccrider]

I had a chance to put some more rounds down the Vudoo this afternoon. With my limited experience up to this point, while I see that adjusting the tuner seems to be effecting the group size, I have not seen the obvious shifts that I have seen with 6mm cartridges.

Overall, I am pleased with the groups the gun shot with the Center X at 50 yards. Most of the groups were in the .2 to . 3 range. The average would likely be in the .3s. I shot the ten shot groups because I felt the gun wanted to shoot and I was actually handling the gun good. By my standards, a .336 10 shot group at 50 yards with a 22 is ok. This is especially so when you consider that this is just a random lot of Center X that I found. If the gun does better with other lots of ammo when I send it to the test center, I will be estatic.

I will add that shooting a 22 Rimfire is different than shooting a centerfire benchrest gun. The best way I can describe it is “less is more” when it comes to firing a string.

I will add to this post as I continue to shoot this gun. I have not seen a lot of post with targets from folks shooting 22s, although I know a lot of folks shoot them. Here is the target with some of the groups measured.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

What i was getting at is your tuner should be moving the point of impact around the poa, if you were moving your tuner this time. It doesnt seem to be responding. Other than that keep up the shooting. That center x looks to be pretty good. It doesnt have a lot of flippers and no bad flyers i can tell.

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

I had a chance to put some more rounds down the Vudoo this afternoon. With my limited experience up to this point, while I see that adjusting the tuner seems to be effecting the group size, I have not seen the obvious shifts that I have seen with 6mm cartridges.

Overall, I am pleased with the groups the gun shot with the Center X at 50 yards. Most of the groups were in the .2 to . 3 range. The average would likely be in the .3s. I shot the ten shot groups because I felt the gun wanted to shoot and I was actually handling the gun good. By my standards, a .336 10 shot group at 50 yards with a 22 is ok. This is especially so when you consider that this is just a random lot of Center X that I found. If the gun does better with other lots of ammo when I send it to the test center, I will be estatic.

I will add that shooting a 22 Rimfire is different than shooting a centerfire benchrest gun. The best way I can describe it is “less is more” when it comes to firing a string.

I will add to this post as I continue to shoot this gun. I have not seen a lot of post with targets from folks shooting 22s, although I know a lot of folks shoot them. Here is the target with some of the groups measured.View attachment 1334303

Ccrider,
Looking at your target you should be shooting setting number 12 to see if it can be consistent. you should strive for a setting that can shoot multiple lots without adjusting the tuner. this target was shot with 4 different lots of CX & Lapua Pistol king each shot was done with a randomly picked round from one of the 4 lots so I couldn't say which shot came from what lot. the circle around each bull is 0.500 in diameter to represent the ARA UL 100 ring.
as a note: temperatures were 33 degrees to start with a 2-5 mph L-R, I shot as fast as I could load and lineup the bull for each shot. I was testing extraction on the rifle and not concerned about hitting the bull.
I knew the tuner setting was good as I have been shooting the same setting of 90 for about a year.
the following Saturday I won my 1st ARA match shooting this rifle in horrible conditions, but I was confident in the tuner setting, I also used a different lot of CX in the match so 5 different lots without touching the tuner.

Lee

 

[Ccrider]

What i was getting at is your tuner should be moving the point of impact around the poa, if you were moving your tuner this time. It doesnt seem to be responding. Other than that keep up the shooting. That center x looks to be pretty good. It doesnt have a lot of flippers and no bad flyers i can tell.

Ok. I understand. I was expecting poa change from high to low too. However, there does not seem to be any with a complete rotation of the tuner. I don’t know why. It is a stiff 20 inch barrel-MTU contour. Maybe @gunsandgunsmithing will chime in.

Forgot to ask- what’s the difference in a flipper and a flier?

 

[Ccrider]

Ccrider,
Looking at your target you should be shooting setting number 12 to see if it can be consistent. you should strive for a setting that can shoot multiple lots without adjusting the tuner. this target was shot with 4 different lots of CX & Lapua Pistol king each shot was done with a randomly picked round from one of the 4 lots so I couldn't say which shot came from what lot. the circle around each bull is 0.500 in diameter to represent the ARA UL 100 ring.
as a note: temperatures were 33 degrees to start with a 2-5 mph L-R, I shot as fast as I could load and lineup the bull for each shot. I was testing extraction on the rifle and not concerned about hitting the bull.
I knew the tuner setting was good as I have been shooting the same setting of 90 for about a year.
the following Saturday I won my 1st ARA match shooting this rifle in horrible conditions, but I was confident in the tuner setting, I also used a different lot of CX in the match so 5 different lots without touching the tuner.

Lee

I will spend some time with setting 12 and see how it shoots. I also have a different lot of Center X that I will try at setting 12 to see if it holds up.