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Silver solder Stainless Bolt & Handle

Maybe someone can help me...

I have silver soldered on many bolt handles onto 700 Rem bolts, and understand the timing issues involved.

A friend broke the bolt handle of a stainless Sendero and asked me to reattach it. I have cleaned it up and got I've got it prepped - but I can't get the silver solder to flow. I have tried five times with no luck. I am using Hi-Force 44 solder and flux from Brownells. The fit is good. Is the fact that it is stainless the problem - if so wat do I do?

Any ideas???

Thanks
 
I'm not familiar with the solder/flux combination you're using.

In just over 40 years welding, I've used 45% silver braze wire and the white paste flux from welding supply houses on quite a lot of stainlesses. The melting temperature of this wire is approx 1145 deg F,,remelt temp is higher) and the flux has to match that temp. Chromium oxide forms readily on stainless surfaces and has to be mechanically removed by sanding, grinding, etc. After the surfaces are down to bare metal, and while the parts are at room temp, very lightly coat all surfaces to be bonded with the flux and position the handle and clamp it tightly to the bolt body. The rest is how I do it, and may not work well for anybody else..... I hold the bolt vertically, with the handle end up, in a vise with copper jaw softeners. wrap a wet shop rag around the bottom end with the locking lugs, and heat the bolt body below the handle with an Oxy-Acety torch. Set the flame on a #0 or #1 tip to a slight carburizing flame, that is with a feather about 1/8' past the conical flame. Move the torch continously and sometimes ease up onto the handle in the area to be bonded, but don't crowd the joint, stay at least 1/2' away from the surfaces. The flux will turn clear before you reach the melting temp of the wire. If the flux or any part of the joint turns a dry black color, the wire won't flow like it needs to. Try not to apply the flame directly over the wire, it will make it a lot harder to flow also. In good light, you may see the parts just begin to turn red. In low light the area will be visibly red. Dip the wire in the paste flux and try touching it to the top of the joint, away from the flame. When it's ready, it will flow so quickly into the joint that it seems to be sucked in instantly. If you get it right, you will see a small, bright wet fillet of liquid silver all around the joint. As soon as that happens, pull the torch away and don't try to reheat it. After 1 -2 minutes I take the bolt out CAREFULLY holding on to the wet rag at the bottom end and quickly dip it into water and out again. Don't leave it in the water. Just jab it in about an inch and jerk it back out. It'll pop off most of the hard flux and safely start to cool the back of the bolt down. You can repeat the quick dip several times, 10 - 20 seconds apart, and finally drop the whole bolt into the water and let it finish cooling. Remove the clamp and inspect the joint looking for the silver flow all around, then touch the very small fillet at the front of the joint with a small 'safed' file that will only cut the silver fillet without marking the bolt body. Jewelry makers use a lot of these files. Ideally, the fillet on this side will be so small that it won't need filing at all. Check the bolt in the receiver to verify that it's rotating into full battery,letting the bolt locking lugs fully engage the shoulders in the receiver). This is CRITICAL.

Three observations: you're right, chrome-moly bolts and handles are easier to silver braze than stainless.

2nd, There are people that offer this service. I don't. If I weren't comfortable doing it though, I wouldn't hesitate to send it to one of them myself.

3rd, It's possible that Remington would warranty the handle coming off. It shouldn't have -- and they should.

I got long-winded, but tried to get enough in to help.

Good luck, whatever you decide to do. Tom
 
Thanks to both of you for your response.

Tom - Very helpful and I really appreciate it. It would have been returned to Remington, had the owner not tried to weld it...

Dan - If Tom's method does not work for us - it will be headed your way!

Erik
 
Short Mag and Dans40X. Yeah, Remington won't do anything now. It will still be TIG weldable, but all traces of silver braze or any other low temp solder will have to be completely removed, otherwise they will boil at the welding temperatures and the resultant gases and solid contaminants will degrade the quality and appearance of the weld. TIG welding is very neat, but I like the 45% silver braze because it will flow well below the magnetic transformation point and in a good tight joint will develop over 45 ksi tensile and shear strength. Thats less than half the strength of the TIG weld metal, but it bonds the whole joint and doesn't subject areas of the bolt to melting temperatures and the high residual shrinkage stresses of a welded joint. The fact that Remington silver brazes them may not be because it's better, but because they can fixture the bolt and handle, use a brazing metal preform and then just run it through a furnace or induction coil and they're done. Good quality control could eliminate 99.99% of failures, but Remington doesn't have a good quality control record.

If Dans40X does this work, by all means send it to him and let him do it. Money in the bank in the long run.

Good luck, Tom
 
Short Mag and Dans40X. Yeah, Remington won't do anything now. It will still be TIG weldable, but all traces of silver braze or any other low temp solder will have to be completely removed, otherwise they will boil at the welding temperatures and the resultant gases and solid contaminants will degrade the quality and appearance of the weld. TIG welding is very neat, but I like the 45% silver braze because it will flow well below the magnetic transformation point and in a good tight joint will develop over 45 ksi tensile and shear strength. Thats less than half the strength of the TIG weld metal, but it bonds the whole joint and doesn't subject areas of the bolt to melting temperatures and the high residual shrinkage stresses of a welded joint. The fact that Remington silver brazes them may not be because it's better, but because they can fixture the bolt and handle, use a brazing metal preform and then just run it through a furnace or induction coil and they're done. Good quality control could eliminate 99.99% of failures, but Remington doesn't have a good quality control record.

If Dans40X does this work, by all means send it to him and let him do it. Money in the bank in the long run.

Good luck, Tom
What part of the world do you live in, I’ve repaired those before, tug welding is the best way!
 
His profile says Lake Jackson Tx. He hasn't been seen on this forum in 4 years.
I know Tom, personally. He's now 85+yrs old and has zero interest in what goes on , on the internet forums. I got to see him at the Tulsa Show last fall, I didn't make it this spring but made a phone call. Sounded like it may have been his last trip to Tulsa. He was one heck of a welder, Navy trained if I remember correctly. He spent many years working in the oilfield, and ended up being transferred to Brazil to teach welding (for Schulmbereger, I think) near the end of his working years. A man worth listening to when it come to permanently joining metals.
 

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