So I got my first carbon ring on a 7 SAUM. This was verified with a Teslong Bore Scope. I had started experiencing pressure signs which led me to get that Borescope. After reading several remedies and unsure of which way I was going to go to remove it I reached out to another member on this forum. His solution sounded best to me as it did not involve harsh chemicals such as CLR or messy abrasives such as Iosso, etc.. His method was quite simple. What I did was wrap a patch around a nylon brush (a worn out bronze brush would probably work too), soaked the patch with Free All, and inserted this into the barrel just to the freebore area where the carbon ring was. I left this sit 24 hours. The next day I removed the patch and took a worn out bronze brush and wrapped it with fine grade bronze wool. I then short stroked the brush and bronze wool 50 strokes in the first 8-12” of the barrel. I then ran a patch with Boretech C4, and 5 dry patches through the barrel and checked it again with my Borescope. About 80% of the ring was gone! I did this procedure one more time and the carbon ring was gone. Removing this carbon ring was much easier than I thought. Obviously the other methods work but if you’re worried about getting CLR on your cerakote, stock, etc. or leaving it in too long and etching your barrel or putting a messy abrasive such as Iosso or JB I’m your barrel and over working and removing material from your barrel I would recommend giving this a try. For those that think bronze wool would remove material let me say this. As a machinist who works on very close tolerance parts - .0002” tol. bores, 8 micro finish, etc. I have polished several close tolerance bores with steel wool wrapped on a brush in a drill press to improve micro finish and do not see much if any (.00005-.0001) change in diameter when working a bore much more aggressively than this.
Carbon Ring Removal - Pretty Easy!
- Thread starter matchbook454
- Start date
I’ve removed the carbon ring in front of the case neck doing this but was unable to remove the hard carbon ring right before the rifling. I’ve found that the carbon ring in that corner of the neck comes out a lot easier and can usually get that out the same way as in that video with C4 and bronze brush one size up. I’ve had zero luck with a nylon brush.
I'm just wondering if using a bronze brush as part of one's routine cleaning process prevents carbon ring formation or at least minimizes it?
When I had to switch to an odorless cleaning solvent, one of the reasons I selected C4 besides it being odorless is that I wanted to continue to use a bronze brush. C4 doesn't significantly reaction with a bronze brush like C2 or Eliminator. Incidentally, I was amazed at the amount of carbon C4 removes compared to Shooter's Choice even with a bronze brush.
I've always used a bronze brush believing that the mechanical action of the bronze brush does a better job of removing carbon than either a nylon or just using solvent "X". Whether this is true or not, I can't say. For me, it just one of those intuitive things.
When I had to switch to an odorless cleaning solvent, one of the reasons I selected C4 besides it being odorless is that I wanted to continue to use a bronze brush. C4 doesn't significantly reaction with a bronze brush like C2 or Eliminator. Incidentally, I was amazed at the amount of carbon C4 removes compared to Shooter's Choice even with a bronze brush.
I've always used a bronze brush believing that the mechanical action of the bronze brush does a better job of removing carbon than either a nylon or just using solvent "X". Whether this is true or not, I can't say. For me, it just one of those intuitive things.
After all the research I’ve done because of this carbon ring I will be using a bronze bore brush and C4 after every shooting session (20-30 rds). Unfortunately I used to use nylon and only clean after 50-75 rounds. A lot of my buddies clean less frequently than that and only clean after they see accuracy fall off. I’d hate to scope their barrels!
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
If you own your own reamer just carefully put it in the chamber with a few drops of oil an give the reamer a clockwise twist.
GONE!
The reamer won't touch the throat or hurt a thing (with a tiny amount of common sense). KEEP it minimal and the reamer will flake it off like a bad paint job.
GONE!
The reamer won't touch the throat or hurt a thing (with a tiny amount of common sense). KEEP it minimal and the reamer will flake it off like a bad paint job.
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
Somebody will make it faster with a milwaukee drill
I always use a bore guide so the former may not apply. Thanks for the info.
I will begin this by saying I DO NOT have the experience any of you guy's have with rifles. I learned the basics from Kenny Jarrett 35 years or so ago when I bought my first custom from him. After I bought the rifle I would hang out and sometimes tune rifles for him. We did not have a myriad of different products to use. I was taught to clean the barrel after every 40 rounds or so. We used Shooters choice with a couple of wet patches, then a bronze brush with one complete cycle through the bore for each shot - rotating the brush 90 degrees each time it exited the muzzle. Then a round of Sweets letting it work no longer than 30 minutes. Once the patches came out clean, we did another round of Shooters Choice and it it came out clean we were done. If not, we cycled through the process again until the patches came out clean. We had a bore scope to check things.
Since then I have read threads on brush-less cleaning solutions like Patch Out and other debates about the best way to clean. I will say I never did any shooting like prairie dog towns or matches, so 40 rounds was and still is "doable" for me.
Carbon rings never seemed to exist during those times. I think I am going back to the "old" regimen.
Since then I have read threads on brush-less cleaning solutions like Patch Out and other debates about the best way to clean. I will say I never did any shooting like prairie dog towns or matches, so 40 rounds was and still is "doable" for me.
Carbon rings never seemed to exist during those times. I think I am going back to the "old" regimen.
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
No brushes or nylon brushes are why the carbon thing is popular these days. Kenny knew what he was doing- it still applies today
BoydAllen
Gold $$ Contributor
There are powders that will build hard carbon, even with regular use of a bronze brush. This tip explains how to remove an accumulation without damaging the barrel. Typically there are a couple of problems in a thread like this, people who are clueless about hard carbon, and those who post without borescope experience. The recent availability of inexpensive borescopes has led to many shooters discovering that they have this problem. This is a safe and effective cure.
Nothing will teach you more about carbon then not using brushes
CaptainMal
Silver $$ Contributor
"Speedy" is doing a mild variation of what I have to do with carbon deposits. No amount of regular cleaning and chemical use really works for me.
CLR is very aggressive and an do damage. BEWARE. Could be so much damage, especially to bluing, you should NOT use it. Yet, I use it literally all the time in the 6mm BR variant target barrels. What comes out on a patch is like thick tar you can use to write with. Still, that is NOT enough.
In the first couple inches of ALL my BR variant target rifles a hard carbon stripe will build up both on the top of the lands and/or in the grooves. It is NOT a ring as such. It is a streak and a nasty streak hard carbon streak.
The answer for me is a more aggressive variation of Speedy. I take a slightly worn bronze brush, even a smaller one, and wrap a patch around that brush. Coat the thing with Isso, JB or even polishes like Flitz or AutoSol Metal Polish. The brush goes into a 24" section of rod I made to fit into a portable drill.
I know, it sounds very aggressive and damaging. Well nothing else seems to work. Alex Wheeler told me the bronze brush can be aggressively push and pulled with out damage. He is not totally correct as damage is don eo the carbon streaks - taking them out. In and out - I push and pull the turning brush/polish with the power drill covering the first 2-4" off rifling where the streaks build.
Chemicals seem to work, even the aggressive ones, for maybe 100 - 150 rds. Then forget it. Those carbon streaks just will not come out with chemicals. Scrape them out. Still get about 1600 ads +- from my target barrels before throwing flyers.
Carbon deposits just do not seem bad on any of my rifles except the 6mm target BR variants. You can sue Varget, Reloader 15, Precision, H4895, H4350 ,140 or whatever. Carbon streaks ruin barrels fast in the 6mm bench guns.
Sure wish there was a chemical way to do it. All those fancy sprays and expensive chemicals just seem to work on anything but the 6mm BR target rifles. Scrub them out or trash them has been my conclusion.
CLR is very aggressive and an do damage. BEWARE. Could be so much damage, especially to bluing, you should NOT use it. Yet, I use it literally all the time in the 6mm BR variant target barrels. What comes out on a patch is like thick tar you can use to write with. Still, that is NOT enough.
In the first couple inches of ALL my BR variant target rifles a hard carbon stripe will build up both on the top of the lands and/or in the grooves. It is NOT a ring as such. It is a streak and a nasty streak hard carbon streak.
The answer for me is a more aggressive variation of Speedy. I take a slightly worn bronze brush, even a smaller one, and wrap a patch around that brush. Coat the thing with Isso, JB or even polishes like Flitz or AutoSol Metal Polish. The brush goes into a 24" section of rod I made to fit into a portable drill.
I know, it sounds very aggressive and damaging. Well nothing else seems to work. Alex Wheeler told me the bronze brush can be aggressively push and pulled with out damage. He is not totally correct as damage is don eo the carbon streaks - taking them out. In and out - I push and pull the turning brush/polish with the power drill covering the first 2-4" off rifling where the streaks build.
Chemicals seem to work, even the aggressive ones, for maybe 100 - 150 rds. Then forget it. Those carbon streaks just will not come out with chemicals. Scrape them out. Still get about 1600 ads +- from my target barrels before throwing flyers.
Carbon deposits just do not seem bad on any of my rifles except the 6mm target BR variants. You can sue Varget, Reloader 15, Precision, H4895, H4350 ,140 or whatever. Carbon streaks ruin barrels fast in the 6mm bench guns.
Sure wish there was a chemical way to do it. All those fancy sprays and expensive chemicals just seem to work on anything but the 6mm BR target rifles. Scrub them out or trash them has been my conclusion.
I'm one of the "clueless" ones without a borescope. Even though I'm an old fart I'm always open to learning more and improving. I mean that sincerely, this is not a sarcastic response to this thread. I genuinely desire to learn about this issue. Truth is, I never heard of a carbon ring until I joined this web site. I do have access to a borescope via a fellow shooter and my rifle smith.
I assume this is an issue because it affects performance, not because the borescope reveals the presences of it in the bore.
What I don't understand is, I have several thousands of rounds through some of my precision varmint rifles. I clean on a regularly basis, about 30 - 60 rounds these days. I've always used a bronze brush and for many years used Shooter's Choice only. I switched to Boretech products a few years ago only because I had to change to an odorless solvent.
Where I'm going with this is that I haven't experienced any decline in precision in any of these rifles, if anything the group sizes have improved. One Rem 700, 223, has 3,208 rounds as of this post yet it is one of my post accurate rifles, in the 1/2 to sub 1/2 moa range with tailored reloads. Several other have over well over 1,000 - 2,000 rounds through them and again had not declined in precision. True, my definition of precision is probably a lot less severe that most competitive target shooters.
In addition, 90% of my varmint and predator hunting is with a 223 Rem. The rest is with a 243 Win.
I don't shoot sustained, repetitive shots, even in range practice because I'm only interested in the cold barrel shot because I'm a varmint and predator hunting. I've taken a few follow up shots of course in the field but this is the rare exception rather than the rule with regards to varmint hunting. Could that possible be the reason I haven't experience the effects of a carbon ring on performance?
I assume this is an issue because it affects performance, not because the borescope reveals the presences of it in the bore.
What I don't understand is, I have several thousands of rounds through some of my precision varmint rifles. I clean on a regularly basis, about 30 - 60 rounds these days. I've always used a bronze brush and for many years used Shooter's Choice only. I switched to Boretech products a few years ago only because I had to change to an odorless solvent.
Where I'm going with this is that I haven't experienced any decline in precision in any of these rifles, if anything the group sizes have improved. One Rem 700, 223, has 3,208 rounds as of this post yet it is one of my post accurate rifles, in the 1/2 to sub 1/2 moa range with tailored reloads. Several other have over well over 1,000 - 2,000 rounds through them and again had not declined in precision. True, my definition of precision is probably a lot less severe that most competitive target shooters.
In addition, 90% of my varmint and predator hunting is with a 223 Rem. The rest is with a 243 Win.
I don't shoot sustained, repetitive shots, even in range practice because I'm only interested in the cold barrel shot because I'm a varmint and predator hunting. I've taken a few follow up shots of course in the field but this is the rare exception rather than the rule with regards to varmint hunting. Could that possible be the reason I haven't experience the effects of a carbon ring on performance?
I have a number of precision rifles using Krieger and Hart heavy barrels. I had never heard of carbon rings until I bought a bore scope. I learned that my cleaning techniques, perfected I thought, over 62 years of shooting, were anything but perfected. I had a carbon ring in several of the barrels. I often shoot at places like Badlands Tactical and Thunder Ranch, where it is not uncommon to shoot 150 rounds in a day, without any chance to clean. What I found with those rings was not a decrease in accuracy but an increase in velocity. For example, one .308 went from about 2620 fps with factory match 168 BTHP ammo, to 2880 fps. There were no pressure signs on the casings. I have not yet managed to completely eliminate the ring, but I reduced them with a lot of hard work. The velocity responded by dropping back into the 2620s. I have tried several techniques discussed on here. I will give this one a try as well. I do get paranoid about damaging the bores!
JEFFPPC
Gold $$ Contributor
You hit the nail on its head . Due to 150 rounds with no cleaning you have described the first step of improper cleaning. Maybe a little effort in at least using a pull through occasionally during the day might help. Remember....American ingenuity won the war.
The first time I posted that I do this a couple years ago, I think I heard a couple guys faint! I use the JB for the really hard stuff. Otherwise, Bore Tech on a worn out bronze, or even a good stiff Iosso nylon brush really works up a good foam inside the barrel and throat...and WORKS!
I 'scope until it is where I want it.
And, also, I had one built up in an open rifle one time, that I just could not get out. Period. My 'smith told me to use my reamer exactly as stated above...I did...and the ring was gone in one spin. I had been working on it for three days. I laid the reamer down on a shop towel, and 2 hours later it was brown with carbon where the reamer was laying. I just do what it takes.
D-4297
Gold $$ Contributor
My chamber neck and Leade area get cleaned after every session . Rifle is a .308 ... I use a .338 Blue nylon brush on a short rod , inserted in a drill motor and dipped in C4 . Get it all wet and run the drill at low speed for two or three minutes . Boring, but effective . Change to a bronze brush and repeat the process for a minute or so . Wrap a patch around the bronze brush and wet the patch with C4 . Takes about ten minutes if I double the process , but I do not concern myself about a carbon ring . Don't forget to carefully run a patch down the barrel to get any junk out . Without the bore guide . Carefully .
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