Trouble loading 223 with range brass

[kwarw1]

My small base die will be here soon and I will do further testing at that point.
As to the charge weight of 24.5 of H335 it is not a hot load.It is almost 1 grain less than Hodgens max. My AR'S shoot the Hornady 55 SP very good, I buy them in bulk you can still get them for $0.14 each! I use v-max 50-55 in my 22-250 I may try them in my AR'S once I get past this hump.
I really appreciate everyone's advice and help. I've been a little sloppy with these rounds and will be more diligent in the future.
Thanks Kwarw

 

[kwarw1]

Okay, The RCBS small base 223 die came in and here are my results.
I deprimed all of the ones I had made up and was surprised at the amount of resizing this new die did in the neck. almost everyone needed trimming afterwards. It also got all of the way down on the base. All but 5 out of 100 passed the case gauge first time I redid them and threw 3 out.
I loaded them up and shot 45 rounds yesterday without one issue. So thanks to you all it appears that I have this under control.
I used every trick you guys told me in this process so thanks to all
KWARW

 

[Newhouse]

Okay, The RCBS small base 223 die came in and here are my results.
I deprimed all of the ones I had made up and was surprised at the amount of resizing this new die did in the neck. almost everyone needed trimming afterwards. It also got all of the way down on the base. All but 5 out of 100 passed the case gauge first time I redid them and threw 3 out.
I loaded them up and shot 45 rounds yesterday without one issue. So thanks to you all it appears that I have this under control.
I used every trick you guys told me in this process so thanks to all
KWARW

Thank you sir for updating this thread. I'm fairly new to reloading and come to this site to learn from everyone's post. I've been to other forums and many times the original poster never comes back after receiving advise from the members.

 

[Flouncer]

As Newhouse said thanks for making the effort to report back. Great explanation of the small base die BTW.

One comment a page back - AR doesn't fully support the case and a bulge may result. Never heard that before. Anyone ? 60,000+ psi and a partially unsupported case ? - thanks

 

[AckleymanII]

Always use a Small base sizer on range brass, ALWAYS! NEVER use SAW brass, it will swell back out on you after it has been sized, you will be in real trouble.

24-25g of benchmark with a 55g Hornady with a cci 400 is our AR load, it is very accurate with no problems.

 

[kwarw1]

Me too!!! And I find that to be rude. I made sure to finish it out even though I had to suck it up and acknowledge my short comings. That's how we learn.

Thank you sir for updating this thread. I'm fairly new to reloading and come to this site to learn from everyone's post. I've been to other forums and many times the original poster never comes back after receiving advise from the members.

 

[asquared19]

does anyone know if the lee pacesetter dies do, in fact resolve this issue as well? I recall seeing on their listing a claim that it works with brass fired from all guns. I reached out to them and they said it sizes to within 1/4" of the shell holder. Just curious if anyone has real world experienced. I have only sized once fired from my own gun, and haven't tried them at the range yet.

 

[ChrisNZ]

Okay, The RCBS small base 223 die came in.. was surprised at the amount of resizing this new die did in the neck. almost everyone needed trimming afterwards..

It's actually body brass flowing forward, not the neck per se stretching

 

[kwarw1]

does anyone know if the lee pacesetter dies do, in fact resolve this issue as well? I recall seeing on their listing a claim that it works with brass fired from all guns. I reached out to them and they said it sizes to within 1/4" of the shell holder. Just curious if anyone has real world experienced. I have only sized once fired from my own gun, and haven't tried them at the range yet.

Well I've always used LEE dies and never a problem till now for an AR-15! I highly recommend the small base die for the AR-15, I'm a believer now! Went to the range today shot around 60 rounds without a single issue. Get a case gauge too,lol.

 

[kwarw1]

It's actually body brass flowing forward, not the neck per se stretching

Yes you are correct. I failed to mention that I could really feel the expander doing it's job when retracting the case. 98% needed trimming afterwards. Now that I have this sorted out I doubt I'll go back to the LEE die for this caliber. I'll toy with that next go around when I process the once fired from my gun. I have a couple hundred primed and ready to load cases now so it'll be awhile. Plus 100 hunting rounds loaded.
I have all of my AR's sighted in and running smoothly, now it's time to get after some coyotes.

 

[243winxb]

I could really feel the expander doing it's job when retracting the case.

A Redding type S, FL bushing die will not over work the brass necks, like standard dies.
It will not size the donut that's at the case neck/shoulder junction.

A Redding Carbide expander button will work with their die. Less friction when pulled out of the necks.

Some brands of brass are almost impossible to pull the expander out of the case necks.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

That's why I don't use an expander anymore.

 

[Surgeonwithagun]

Have you "drop tested" the finished rounds? Do they easily drop into and out of battery? Alternatively a case gauge could be used to tell you them same regarding the rounds being roughly in spec once completed?

John

 

[kwarw1]

Have you "drop tested" the finished rounds? Do they easily drop into and out of battery? Alternatively a case gauge could be used to tell you them same regarding the rounds being roughly in spec once completed?

John

Yes I have. My test done several times is.Drop in to my Lyman case gauge,verify that it is flush and it must fall out to pass. Since the die and this test procedure I have not had a single failure.

Yesterday I pulled down all of my loaded ones that wouldn't pass the case gauge. When I reprocessed the brass I had 2 that still would not pass out of 70 or so. I tossed them. It appears that about 3-4 % of this brass isn't gonna resize. That's not a problem as I have alot of it.

 

[Ray123]

I use SB dies on some 223/5.56 and regular dies on 300 BLkout AR... both work equally well on Military/ range brass....even a binary trigger where you're running full auto round counts...SB and regular base dies both work on all my ARs 15 or 10 mix dies it doesn't matter. The small base is a half thousandths smaller in the base, and not likely to solve the problem your having. You have to analyze the situation, and find out what the problem is. I had a brand new 9 mm AR barrel from a reputable company, that would not feed bullets over .3550".....a .3555" bullet would not go into battery, and stick in the chamber...
Built a sizing die to resize all 9mm bullets to .3550". After about 500 resized bullets, ordered a 9 mm finish reamer from Brownells... took care of the problem. Sometimes it's the operator, sometimes it's the die, sometimes its the chamber. Some cases spring back a thou or two more than others...start .005 below fired the dstum head space. Check the case neck diameter against the thickest loaded round, and type of brass. Brass OAL, chamber OAL...range brass could be fired 15 times and never trimmed or annnealed, periodically check the die settings to make sure nothing moved as you process your thousands of cases.
I just processed another thousand 308 military range cases with regular base 308 Wilson FL bushing die...going to be fired in an AR 10 this time, but will fit any 308 I own, as the first 500 purchased already been through multiple guns, bolt and auto.

 

[kwarw1]

Yes Ray123, This whole thing started with LEE and Hornady dies.I didn't have a case gauge at that time. I started having issues and bought the case gauge I found that the brass was not to spec. The problem is near the base of the case. I was also slack about my OAL.
Once I started using the small base die almost all of them need trimming. I posted this asking for advise and got it.
Long story short small base dies,attention to OAL, and a case gauge solved the problem for me. I've learned from this and hope that I can spare others from going through similar problems.

If you read this from the beginning I've been reloading a looong time without issues. and have been humbled by this experience.

 

[DocCarbon]

Hello all, my first post here.

I've been reloading along time,like 40+ years. I've run into a problem reloading for my AR-15. My neighbor brings me brass in buckets from the range he shoots at. Here is how I processed it.

Dry tumble,resize and deprime. Separate the military and swage those. Then reload with 24.5 grains of H335 with Hornady 55 grain soft points. Drop into a case gauge and about 10% don't pass! I have took the decapping rod out and resized some of these loaded rounds and they barely pass.

At the range I'm having some issues as well. with failure to fire and stuck in the chamber. This requires me to mortar to remove them! They are stuck good. I am thinking it is the neck thickness. Has anybody else had these kind of problems with thier 223 AR-15?

I'm gonna give You a suggestion : FIND one case which fits BOTH chambers , RESET YOUR DIES to DUPLICATE THAT CASE , RUN #25 cases only ,use case gauge and drop them into Your chambers . IF you do this and NO case fails , YOU ARE GOOD TO GO . DON'T forget to TRIM cases to length or 0.010" under or 1.760".
That way you're not apt to have too long of a neck and force the bullet into the chamber ,which also fails to go into battery . I've seen this time and time ,people become complacent or neglectful on TRIMMING cases .

I've done it my own self !. Military 5.56x45 range fodder can be horribly out of spec ,due to who knows what chamber dimensions . I was privileged to get a box full of 7.62x51mm brass from a friend ,who told Me where they came from . Belt Fed and by their dimensions I'd say an older M60 from VN with a worn chamber !!.
Seriously some were so difficult , I ended up resizing them #3 Times ,with a very high quality lube and still stuck a number . Company's reloading Dies DIDN'T resize to fit their case gauge . The H company fyi .

That's why I say YOU put them empty into YOUR chambers and BE SURE .

 

[DocCarbon]

Almost all of the 223 range brass has been fired from an AR type rifle. The AR type rifle chambers do not support the base of the cartridge. This causes a slight bulge about 3/16 inch from the base of the cartridge.

In order to insure a factory sized case, you will need a Small Based die. This will insure the case is formed to SAMMI specifications and your chambering problems sill disappear.

Not to argue with sound advice ; However NOT all SB dies resize to fit a case gauge ,I've an H set with their gauge and they DON'T jive . I'd have to get MY notes but as you mentioned in MY cases .215" above rim base 7.62x51mm NEVER did get back to it's original Dia. ,missed it by 0.04" !. Thus making the case gauge a NO go every time . Switched Dies and problem solved . Both gauge and Dies were New in their boxes or plastic tube . First time I ever ran into that and I've been pulling the handle for #54 years Feb.

Can't stress enough to EVERYONE the value of owning and properly using Quality Measuring tools !.
You'll know within minutes what's right or wrong .

 

[Nick Caprinolo]

There are many here who will stick their nose up in the air about RCBS dies and in some cases I guess they are right. However When I first started reloading for an AR15, I bought the REBS Small Base die. It does the job very well and I have never had a case problem after using it. I would never use range brass in my bolt action rifles. I am a Lapua brass snob for every bolt gun I have.

 

[Kracken McGraw]

You say die is touching shell holder. Run a case in the die and leave the handle down. Now take a close look at the die shell holder interface. I bet you will see a small gap that you can measure with a feeler guage ! If so turn the die down 1/8th turn and check again. If still a gap turn the die down another 1/8. Repeat til no gap. When you load the linkage with a case going into the die any slack in the linkage will keep the die from touching the shell holder hence not really completely sizing the case.

Frank

Posts like this are gold gems in this forum, if people will take time to listen.