9x39 powder options and load data

[Raccoon]

Thank you for welcoming me to the community. New to reloading and will be working with the basics, 9x19, 45 ACP, and 223 to get myself familiar with the process.

The reason for deciding to take the plunge now was due to the 9x39 round. Since the supply has essentially been cut with no one producing the ammo in the US, and what little that is left soaring to $1.90/Rd, I've decided to start reloading it myself.

With that out of the way, there is some load data floating around regarding powders and charge weights. The loads seem pretty consistent with the two sources I've seen. I'm hoping someone has worked with it already and can confirm the loads or suggest some that have worked for them. Essentially, just want to be as safe as possible and to make sure I have a good understanding of what's safe.

AR-15 platform
10.5" barrel with pistol gas system
Brass has been sized from 7.62x39 and still needs to be fire formed.
Hornady InterLock .366, 286 Gr
Speer Hot Core .366, 270 Gr on order







Another topic I'm curious of, if anyone has worked up a load for the 9x18 95gr Makarov projectiles. I will need to fire form the brass and would possibly want to do some plinking with them rather than using a 40¢-80¢ projectile. I understand OAL will probably be much too short to run reliably semi auto. I was thinking of working up using trail boss or working off the 7.62x39 load data -10%.

 

[Hoot]

Wow, I actually had to look that one up. Never heard of it before now. Cool concept for can fans.

Hoot

 

[ebb]

You never mentioned whose load data that is that you posted? If it is published data from a known source then you can have confidence that it is good safe data. But as all data it cannot see what the tolerances are in you rifle, the barrel, the brass and the bullets. If you got extremely unlucky and got all of the tight dimensions in one gun then the data may be too hot. This is why with all load data it is stated to start low and work up. If you pick a load that is a starting load or at least one well below the book max load and work your way towards max, at some point pressure signs will start to appear. It is your responsibility to learn these signs and decide for you self at what point is this a safe good load. Some decide that a load is safe at more pressure than others, and a safe load could still be safe and be very hard on brass and the gun. You are responsible for your own safety. learn what the signs of pressure are and look closely for them.

 

[mace2364]

I’m definitely interested in what you come up with. I’ve been fascinated by 9x39 but I was waiting to see if anyone bothered to chamber something more interesting than an AR in the caliber here.

I suspect that you’ll have a similar adventure to what we did trying to come up with 5.45x39 data 10+ years ago. At least you have a suitable case to start from.

You’ll probably find that you’ll need to anneal the case necks to get any kind of case life. I’m pretty basic that way, and just use a small propane torch and a container of water. I hold the case in my hand and heat the neck with the torch. When it’s too hot to hold, I drop it in the water. That ensures I don’t overheat the case head(because too hot to hold is a few hundred degrees below ruined case)But there are lots of options out there for more sophisticated methods.

 

[mace2364]

I just noticed….if you’re loading steel cases, forget everything I said about annealing. Steel anneals differently than brass, and you probably won’t need to worry about it anyway.

 

[mattri]

Love the idea of this round in a little bolt action carbine.

 

[Raccoon]

Sorry for the late reply, I didn't realize that notifications were not on.

Hoot: It's supposedly whisper quiet with a can. I would also like to work up a supersonic hunting load once I'm familiar enough with the round. There are some good projectile options from 150-300 grain.

EBB: The load data was their own findings with their particular AR setup which is why I'm not confident enough in the data to take the minimum charge and work up. The only data I have that I would consider from a known source would be from KAK Industry who makes projectiles and barrels for 9x39. Unfortunately, it's rather limited. With that being said, it's definitely inline with the data I posted above.
Safety is my priority. Working up while checking for pressure signs is my plan. I was thinking to go 10% under the data listed and work up from there. Case volume is limited with the 270 and 286 grain projectiles. I suspect I'll run out of case before seeing pressure signs. As for the 95 grain Makarov projectiles, I found some Trail Boss at a lgs that I'll be working with.


Mace2364: Yes, I'm planning on annealing once I begin dialing this in. I'm still in the research phase of this little adventure.
I have seen one or two bolt guns chambered in 9x39. You could probably reach out to KAK industries as they have blanks, reamers, and probably all the tooling to adapt it to another action. If I can get this to work, I may contact them about a barrel for a R700 action.
That was the only picture I could find that shows the round as well as the little 95 grain Makarov projectile. All they did was pull the 286 grain projectile and seat the 95 grain. No powder adjustment, nothing. I'm currently working with 7.62x39 brass with boxer primers and plan to buy some Starline Grendel basic brass when it comes back in stock. I have a dummy round mocked up so I can get myself familiar with the die set. The case has not been fire formed and should have a more pronounced shoulder and a straighter wall.

The picture from left to right:
5.56 - 350 legend - 7.62x39 - 9x39


Mattri: I'm thinking the same thing. Preferably supersonic. Hopefully this works out and I can get a barrel made. Possibly start off with a used 6.5 Grendel or 6mm ARC and re barrel it to 9x39. Magazines would be my only concern. Possibly use the 6.5 Grendel follower in a 350 legend body if one is available.

 

[Raccoon]

While doing some digging, I have found out that KAK used to sell 9x39 Remington 700 barrels. I'm going to reach out to them Monday and see if they still have any.

 

[mattri]

Very interesting. I looked into this round just couldn't find any barrels, went with a 300BO instead and am ironically still waiting on said barrel.
Watching this closely thanks for the update and be sure to keep us posted.

 

[Raccoon]

Well, decided today was the day. Started off with 10% of the 11 grains of Lilgun that KAK recommended and worked up from there. Strapped the test gun to a table and stringed the trigger.


Action actually cycled and locked back on the empty magazine. Inspected the case and saw no pressure signs. Loaded up 5 more in .2 grain increments and worked up to 11. Saw no pressure signs with each progressive shot.

Unfortunately, I do not have a chronograph yet. That's in the works.

Decided since 10 grains cycled the action to load the remaining brass and fire form them.

After fire forming, cleaned and reloaded the formed brass.

 

[Raccoon]

Very interesting. I looked into this round just couldn't find any barrels, went with a 300BO instead and am ironically still waiting on said barrel.
Watching this closely thanks for the update and be sure to keep us posted.

KAK Industries has 9x39 barrels in stock as well as a 2 300BO. I'm running their 7.62x39 barrel since Faxon was out of stock.

 

[Raccoon]

Love the idea of this round in a little bolt action carbine.

Looks like they are still available and in stock. The only option they list is a 9" though. A R700 pistol may need to happen.

 

[Ray123]

Never heard of this caliber...but Starline makes a 6.5 grendel basic case, that is a straight wall case used for Grindel based wildcats... I used it for 6mm ARC when nothing was available...and it has a small rifle primer. Just anneal the neck and run through the die...I made the first step die on the lathe with 30 deg shoulder....goes from .440 to .308 very easily when you anneal
Looks fun ...but I don't see an advantage over the 300 blackout, cheap brass, cheap bullets, SR primers, low recoil, components available, large variety of bullets 110 gr to 250 Atip, specific bullets for hunting at subsonic velocities that actually mushroom up. The .366 dia 270 gr Speer is not cheap nor for hunting at 1000 fps, its a High velocity rifle bullet...the 30 cal has a bunch of high BC bullets, and 110 Varmageddon high velocity for varmints, or 110 Barns high velocity deer...a bunch of sub sonic bullets designed specifically for hunting.
But advantages or disadvantages may have little to do with what you want or like...so build and reload away at your hearts content, looks like a fun project. I also have a bunch of subsonic 50 BMG loaded up, and 175 SMK subsonic both very accurate...useful? Not much, but fun yes...just to compliment the 800rds of 220 gr, 225 gr Blackout subs I recently reloaded. Also 175 gr SMK Subs in my 300 BO are very accurate. The 250 Atip wasn't
As accurate as the 225 ELDM... but it needs more load development or maybe a faster twist than 7....but too expensive to fool with IMO.
But check out the Starline grendel basic brass, looks like a perfect fit for your project.
Have fun..

 

[Raccoon]

Never heard of this caliber...but Starline makes a 6.5 grendel basic case, that is a straight wall case used for Grindel based wildcats... I used it for 6mm ARC when nothing was available...and it has a small rifle primer. Just anneal the neck and run through the die...I made the first step die on the lathe with 30 deg shoulder....goes from .440 to .308 very easily when you anneal
Looks fun ...but I don't see an advantage over the 300 blackout, cheap brass, cheap bullets, SR primers, low recoil, components available, large variety of bullets 110 gr to 250 Atip, specific bullets for hunting at subsonic velocities that actually mushroom up. The .366 dia 270 gr Speer is not cheap nor for hunting at 1000 fps, its a High velocity rifle bullet...the 30 cal has a bunch of high BC bullets, and 110 Varmageddon high velocity for varmints, or 110 Barns high velocity deer...a bunch of sub sonic bullets designed specifically for hunting.
But advantages or disadvantages may have little to do with what you want or like...so build and reload away at your hearts content, looks like a fun project. I also have a bunch of subsonic 50 BMG loaded up, and 175 SMK subsonic both very accurate...useful? Not much, but fun yes...just to compliment the 800rds of 220 gr, 225 gr Blackout subs I recently reloaded. Also 175 gr SMK Subs in my 300 BO are very accurate. The 250 Atip wasn't
As accurate as the 225 ELDM... but it needs more load development or maybe a faster twist than 7....but too expensive to fool with IMO.
But check out the Starline grendel basic brass, looks like a perfect fit for your project.
Have fun..

I actually have that brass on order from starline, just waiting for it to come in stock. There was a run of starline with the correct head stamp for 9x39. I missed out on the last run and they are not planning to do another unfortunately.

I agree, 300BO has many many more choices for projectiles and plenty of load data. I think what I was looking for was a heavier subsonic load that would still be adequate for hunting. I'm hoping that, just like with the blackout, that more expanding subsonic projectiles will become available. The cost of projectiles is definitely prohibitive, that's why I was looking into the Makarov projectiles as they are only 10¢ each vs the cheapest at 45¢. Casting is probably going to be the most cost effective option at this point though.

Going supersonic may be a good option as well, like a heavier 350 legend. I've been looking at the 357 Maximum loading data questioning if it will cross over to 9x39 as a good starting point.

Either way. I'm definitely excited to learn. I'm happy my first tests have been uneventful.

 

[Raccoon]

Update:
Chronograph has arrived and I now have some velocity numbers. The charges and velocities are my data that was observed with my current setup.

9x39
10.5" KAK barrel
Semi-auto AR platform
Pistol gas system
1.7 oz buffer
Wolff extra power hammer spring
10% reduced buffer spring

7.62x39 S&B Brass resized to 9x39, fire formed
Federal Large Rifle Match primers
Hornady Interlock 286 Grain .366 projectiles
Hodgdon Lilgun
2.180 OAL

11.2 Grains - 998 FPS
11.4 Grains - 1015 FPS
11.6 Grains - 1058 FPS

I have some CFE black and A1680 I'm planning to work up with.

Makarov projectiles are on the way. For the 95 grain, I'm going to work with Trail boss the keep velocities low.

I'll keep updating as things progress.

 

[Raccoon]

***The charges and velocities are my data that was observed with my current setup***

I will use this as I continue to try different powder and projectile combinations and update as I go.

9x39
10.5" KAK barrel
Semi-auto AR platform
Pistol gas system
1.7 oz buffer
Wolff extra power hammer spring
10% reduced buffer spring

7.62x39 S&B Brass resized to 9x39, fire formed
Case capacity: 38.2 Grains of H2O

Federal Large Rifle Match primers
Hornady Interlock 286 Grain .366 projectiles
2.180 OAL

Hodgdon Lilgun
11.2 Grains - 998 FPS
11.4 Grains - 1015 FPS
11.6 Grains - 1058 FPS

Hodgdon CFE BLK
16.0 Grains - 1015
16.2 Grains - 1028
16.4 Grains - 1048

Subsonic 300BO powder choices appear to translate well to 9x39. I'll continue to update as I work my way through the list of powders as long as they are available.

 

[Flouncer]

Can you label or otherwise illustrate the pic ? Looks like a 5.56, a 444 Marlin, a 7.62x39 and your creation. Close ?

 

[bobm]

Three out of four ain't bad. I say .350 Legend, not .444 Marlin.

 

[mattri]

Very interesting thanks.

Any accuracy observations or were you just function testing?

 

[PopCharlie]

This is very intriguing. This round could be fun to work up a 50yd accuracy load.

PopCharlie