Scope mounting question.

[Stan R]

I guess I have 2 questions.

I have a Savage Precision left hand 308. It comes standard with a 20 MOA Base. I got a great deal on a Vortex Gold Eagle ECR-1 reticle I have a set of Burris XTR Signature rings medium height. The rings come with several inserts to adjust from 0 to 40 moa. I have never used these rings before. My initial thought is the mount the scope with Zero MOA added. I think you do that by adding the + 20 to the front and back. I need some input on if that is correct or if it would be okay to add more moa.

I plan on shooting some long distance. I'm not sure how far down that rabbit hole I will go. But, I have already spend a small fortune on reloading equipment. I live 1/2 way between Dallas and Houston, TX. I'm pretty sure that are matching and ranges with a reasonable distance to me.

My second question.

The medium height ring make the bell of the scope a little less that .5 inch above the barrel. The low rings would reduce that by .24 My gut tells me to get the lower rings so the scope will set closer.

I have many years of experience shooting, mounting scopes on hunting rifles.

The world of precision shooting is a completely different world.

Thanks for your help.

 

[Stan R]

Correction...

I double checked and do have B XTR Signature low rings. Looks like Ill have to use another set If I want to get the scope lower.

 

[std7mag]

A 20 MOA one piece rail that comes with a Savage rifle is from EGW.
I use these on my Savage rifles.
The one "drawback", is they are tall.
I use low rings on everything up to a 50mm objective.
I have used low rings with my SIII 10-50X60, but it depends on your barrel contour.

If you do zero/zero on the rings, you can dial 20 MOA out of the scope to sight in.
20 MOA is usually recommended for 500-1,000 yards.

 

[Stan R]

A 20 MOA one piece rail that comes with a Savage rifle is from EGW.
I use these on my Savage rifles.
The one "drawback", is they are tall.
I use low rings on everything up to a 50mm objective.
I have used low rings with my SIII 10-50X60, but it depends on your barrel contour.

If you do zero/zero on the rings, you can dial 20 MOA out of the scope to sight in.
20 MOA is usually recommended for 500-1,000 yards.

I will look into getting a thinner 20 MOA rail.

I did mess with it some and used to -20 moa inserts on the front/back bottom and it lowered the scope some.

Thanks for you response.

 

[Full Chisel]

The XTR sigs will be fine. You can install +20/+20 (or -20/-20) to achieve 0 moa cant from rings themselves. The -20/-20 will put scope just slightly lower, but not really noticeable. I have feeling that to get to 1000, you're gonna need to use the inserts for more cant, but depends on your load and scope adjustment range.

Just fyi on the Burris XTR inserts. Make sure you torque ring caps to 20 in-lb, then come back later an re-torque. Those inserts will settle in, and the cant can initially not be what you expected. I've had them be off quite a bit, but re-torquing usually gets them to where you would expect. The regular sig rings (1" & 30mm) require 30-35 in-lb on rings (yes, ring caps, per Burris) before they will settle in to accurate cants.

 

[stevenpoplin]

according to thier website that scope only has 55MOA elevation range. So if you want to zero at 100 yrds you will want to cant your scope forward no more that half that, inluding your rail. So with a 20 MOA rail that leaves you with around 7.5 to play with. Keep in mind it doesnt always work out perfectly but with those rings you can make a change if nessesary. also it matters how far apart your rings are they arent always exactly 20 or 40 that you set up for. The instructions guide you through it all.
for instance on a NF ATACR i have the +20 on top front and -20 on bottom front and -20 on top back and + 20 on bottom back and that gies me close to 40 MOA but not quite cause my rings are a little further apart than to get it exact. I will say I would not have gived you a plug nickle for rings with plastic inserts on any rifle. but on my 338-378 Weatherby mag AI that has a rail that is bedded with JB Weld I tried themexpectin to prove they would fail. But a friend proved me wrong wrong wrong. I also tested out a set of the 30mm ones on a NF NSX 5.5x22 on the same rifle and they dont move.

 

[ronemus]

The big test is whether the scope is at the right height as you mount the rifle; if it's too low you'll be mashing your cheek to get centered behind the scope, and if it's too high you won't have good cheek contact and your hold will be wobbly. There is no magic height - it depends on the shape of your face. the shape of the comb, your position, etc. Most of my rifles have adjustable cheekpieces because the right height for me can change by as musch as an inch between prone and offhand. Before you change rails and/or rings, take the time to see how the rifle feels when you mount it.

 

[stevenpoplin]

^^^^^^that too

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

Bore sight with the zero inserts and the 20 moa rail. Just to make sure no vertical adjustment is needed to zero at 100. You don't want to start low.

 

[NZ_Fclass]

The guys all have it right. Just a thought....I gave up on zeroing at 100. Ok- I mainly shoot FTR, so I leave my zero setting at 500 yds. I achieve this by dialling x in high at 100 and setting zero, then verify on a target. So--it could make sense for a long range rifle to adjust the rail/rings to say a 500 ish zero with the scope centred, allowing plenty of dial down to shorter distances. This would certainly work with scopes that have a limited elevation adjustment.

 

[3Sigma]

Bore sight with the zero inserts and the 20 moa rail. Just to make sure no vertical adjustment is needed to zero at 100. You don't want to start low.

This first.

I have a savage 308 with a 20 moa rail and XTR rings. I only put 10 MOA or less due to only having 60 moa in my scope. Any more than that and I risk not being able to zero at 100 due to lack of scope travel

 

[Full Chisel]

Probably stating the obvious, but your actual usable cant is the total amount of cant from rail and ring inserts minus the moa needed to make up the scope to bore height and the actual ballistic drop at whatever your zero range is. On my 308 with same 20 moa rail zeroed at 100 with normal rings, I was only at about 16 moa of dialing below scope optical center for zero. Additionally, any barrel cant relative to top of receiver can add to or subtract from the potential elevation dialing range. Thats why you may end up needing to add some cant with the inserts. I am now running a 20 moa rail plus 10-ish moa with the inserts and am getting almost 56 moa of total elevation dialing from my zero. But, like someone mentioned, you may want start without any ring cant as a baseline, because you may end up having to work some windage adjustment in as well with inserts.

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

I guess I have 2 questions.

I have a Savage Precision left hand 308. It comes standard with a 20 MOA Base. I got a great deal on a Vortex Gold Eagle ECR-1 reticle I have a set of Burris XTR Signature rings medium height. The rings come with several inserts to adjust from 0 to 40 moa. I have never used these rings before. My initial thought is the mount the scope with Zero MOA added. I think you do that by adding the + 20 to the front and back. I need some input on if that is correct or if it would be okay to add more moa.

I plan on shooting some long distance. I'm not sure how far down that rabbit hole I will go. But, I have already spend a small fortune on reloading equipment. I live 1/2 way between Dallas and Houston, TX. I'm pretty sure that are matching and ranges with a reasonable distance to me.

My second question.

The medium height ring make the bell of the scope a little less that .5 inch above the barrel. The low rings would reduce that by .24 My gut tells me to get the lower rings so the scope will set closer.

I have many years of experience shooting, mounting scopes on hunting rifles.

The world of precision shooting is a completely different world.

Thanks for your help.

You must be in Buffalo, TX.

Bayou Rifles, Inc. (Houston, TX), has monthly competitions year-round. We have a 1000 yard range with 23 targets with pits. We also use electronic targets. The first Sunday of every month is when we have the 1000 yard High Power match. The second Sunday is for the XTC crowd. The third Sunday is for the 300/600 High Power match, 300 yards in the summer, 600 yards the rest of the time. We also host the yearly TSRA LR and the MR championships.

You can view the full schedule here:

Home - Bayou Rifles Inc.

Fraternal Organization

www.bayourifles.org

And if you are interested, I would suggest you sign up in the mailing list on that page.

BRI also hosts the award-winning, quadrennial (every 4 years) "Introduction to competition and wind reading clinic", and as luck would have it, the 3rd edition of this exciting class is Saturday, March 5th. You can get information about the class and how to register here:

https://bayourifles.wildapricot.org/resources/Documents/hp/Information/Training-Class.pdf

As for mounting your scope, I can probably help you with that, but first, I need to know what your goal is with that rifle. So let the dialog begin.

 

[Stan R]

I settled on using the -20 on both bottoms for now. I ran out of light so I'll check eye relief and cheek contact tomorrow after work.

lots of info to digest...

Thanks.

You must be in Buffalo, TX.

Bayou Rifles, Inc. (Houston, TX), has monthly competitions year-round. We have a 1000 yard range with 23 targets with pits. We also use electronic targets. The first Sunday of every month is when we have the 1000 yard High Power match. The second Sunday is for the XTC crowd. The third Sunday is for the 300/600 High Power match, 300 yards in the summer, 600 yards the rest of the time. We also host the yearly TSRA LR and the MR championships.

You can view the full schedule here:

Home - Bayou Rifles Inc.

Fraternal Organization

www.bayourifles.org

And if you are interested, I would suggest you sign up in the mailing list on that page.

BRI also hosts the award-winning, quadrennial (every 4 years) "Introduction to competition and wind reading clinic", and as luck would have it, the 3rd edition of this exciting class is Saturday, March 5th. You can get information about the class and how to register here:

https://bayourifles.wildapricot.org/resources/Documents/hp/Information/Training-Class.pdf

As for mounting your scope, I can probably help you with that, but first, I need to know what your goal is with that rifle. So let the dialog begin.

I already signed up for the class on March 3rd. I live close to Madisonville. I will reach out to you later today about the scope.

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

We'll take care of Stan R at the class and get him shooting F-Class in no time.

 

[Woofie]

The Burris XTR Signature rings are excellent, in my experience. I would say keeping the front and back ring adjustments in a straight line is wise, as described by @stevenpoplin above. "Bending" your scope by having different values front and rear isn't necessarily a recipe for 'scope longevity.
And, as @Turbulent Turtle Turtle will tell you, being at a zero +/- point in your 'scope adjustment will get you the best quality of sight picture.
In which case, for your needs, zeroing at 500 or 600 yards would seem to be logical. I have one rifle I zero at 1,000 yards simply because I never shoot it at anything closer. A number of folks on FB could never get over that. Their problem not mine.
BTW, EGW bases, if you're prepared for a short wait, are now available to a 60MOA cant. Not needed for F-class (I hope) but that with XTR rings opens a World of possibilities that don't need an adjustable base or a prism.

 

[Full Chisel]

I would say keeping the front and back ring adjustments in a straight line is wise, as described by @stevenpoplin above. "Bending" your scope by having different values front and rear isn't necessarily a recipe for 'scope longevity.

Just thought I'd clarify something on the Burris Sigs. The way the they work is that the inserts are allowed to pivot inside the rings, just like a pivoting bearing. The scope contact surfaces will ultimately line up parallel to scope body no matter what insert configuration you have, so no "bending" of the scope body is taking place. They aren't simple shims, which DO cause scope bending.

 

[PracticalTactical]

The medium height ring make the bell of the scope a little less that .5 inch above the barrel. The low rings would reduce that by .24 My gut tells me to get the lower rings so the scope will set closer.

I have many years of experience shooting, mounting scopes on hunting rifles.

The world of precision shooting is a completely different world.

Thanks for your help.

The height of the scope relative to the barrel is of no consequence whatsoever. There is no mechanical advantage to mounting a scope low to the barrel.

The height of the scope relative to your eye when is any of the shooting positions is all that matters.

Set the scope height so it is comfortable for you when you mount the rifle.

In a perfect world... If you have an adjustable cheek then set that first for your comfort, then try to set the scope in line with your line of sight.