Hard carbon, solvents, and benefit of a bore scope

[fatelvis]

I need to get some too, but keep forgetting to look when I’m in town.

Free All FS16 Deep Penetrating Oil 14 oz. Non-Aerosol Spray https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08C3QPMYJ/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_i_01PT6XH64Y0A86Z2CAP9

 

[Kracken McGraw]

Free All FS16 Deep Penetrating Oil 14 oz. Non-Aerosol Spray https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08C3QPMYJ/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_i_01PT6XH64Y0A86Z2CAP9

Ok thanks much!
The MRS. shut off Amazon after the stolen election, but I have noticed a box or two show up lately. I may have to question her sometime when the sun is shining, Lol!

 

[Kracken McGraw]

Free All FS16 Deep Penetrating Oil 14 oz. Non-Aerosol Spray https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08C3QPMYJ/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_i_01PT6XH64Y0A86Z2CAP9

Now after paying attention, I like the non-aerosol type that you posted. I have the worst luck with keeping the aerosol type cans working.

 

[Woodymyers]

You guys won’t be disappointed. It still requires some scrubbing but if your guns build up that glasslike almost impossible to remove hard carbon, then your going to be pleasantly surprised. Watch winning in the wind on you tube. He has a couple of videos to watch. we all have our own cleaning routine and mine was much like his. Patch out, scrub, iosso scrub, JB bore paste scrub. All depends on how deep I want to clean. Anyway, I tried the free all after one such cycle of cleaning and was amazed. Still had to soak and scrub twice, but took the barbell back to raw steel.

 

[Gargoyle]

You guys won’t be disappointed. It still requires some scrubbing but if your guns build up that glasslike almost impossible to remove hard carbon, then your going to be pleasantly surprised. Watch winning in the wind on you tube. He has a couple of videos to watch. we all have our own cleaning routine and mine was much like his. Patch out, scrub, iosso scrub, JB bore paste scrub. All depends on how deep I want to clean. Anyway, I tried the free all after one such cycle of cleaning and was amazed. Still had to soak and scrub twice, but took the barbell back to raw steel.

I really like his videos. I just discovered his channel too. Dude is calm, plain spoken, and detail oriented. Getting a borescope got me researching the best cleaning products and methods now, LOL!

 

[Ironman308]

I used Freeall on a 223 with about 2000 rounds on it. Only cleaned with nylon brush. Bore scoped it and it was in really bad shape. It took a few days of soaking (24hrs) and a bronze brush with 20 strokes. I soaked and brushed it till the patch came out clean. I could of done it faster but I was in no hurry. It came out clean and the accuracy went back to where it started. MV slowed down but when I tested it the original load worked perfect.

 

[JMayo]

I'm kinda in the mindset of it's not a new barrel then it's not gonna look new and getting it to a new look takes away from it's structure. Like sanding a weathered board.
What is accepted is up to accuracy. My Rounds sped up from a fouled barrel compared to clean.

 

[Brians356]

Now after paying attention, I like the non-aerosol type that you posted. I have the worst luck with keeping the aerosol type cans working.

It's easy to recharge aerosol cans, something I wish I'd known a long time ago:

How To Refill or Recharge Aerosol Spray Cans

How to refill / recharge aerosol spray cans. Two methods to refill the propellant in are demonstrated - throw away less and save money!

m.roadkillcustoms.com

-

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

I buy Free All at Mills Fleet Farm, the aerosol version is the lowest price there, online and auto stores are higher priced.

 

[JEFFPPC]

I used Freeall on a 223 with about 2000 rounds on it. Only cleaned with nylon brush. Bore scoped it and it was in really bad shape. It took a few days of soaking (24hrs) and a bronze brush with 20 strokes. I soaked and brushed it till the patch came out clean. I could of done it faster but I was in no hurry. It came out clean and the accuracy went back to where it started. MV slowed down but when I tested it the original load worked perfect.

Iornman I think you hit the nail on the head with soak time with any solvent. Hoppes and Kroil work great for me if I let it soak for a minimum of 48 hrs. I tried Freeall, it did nothing.....but I only left it soak about 18 hours....shame on me. SWEETS for copper with 24 hr soak. Gotta say I think nylon brushes are wasted effort except maybe for making sure all traces of Iosso are removed. I Iosso about ever 100 to 125 rounds max of 10 strokes.

 

[Ironman308]

Iornman I think you hit the nail on the head with soak time with any solvent. Hoppes and Kroil work great for me if I let it soak for a minimum of 48 hrs. I tried Freeall, it did nothing.....but I only left it soak about 18 hours....shame on me. SWEETS for copper with 24 hr soak. Gotta say I think nylon brushes are wasted effort except maybe for making sure all traces of Iosso are removed. I Iosso about ever 100 to 125 rounds max of 10 strokes.

I agree, I will never go back to nylon brushes for cleaning. One of my mentors worries about wearing out the barrel with bronze. I have moved on in that regard and bought bronze brushes for all calibers. When I feel they are worn out I toss them and get a new one.

 

[Ironman308]

It's easy to recharge aerosol cans, something I wish I'd known a long time ago:

How To Refill or Recharge Aerosol Spray Cans

How to refill / recharge aerosol spray cans. Two methods to refill the propellant in are demonstrated - throw away less and save money!

m.roadkillcustoms.com

-

I got the aerosol and it was a mess so I sprayed it into a bottle with a dropper top and it works much better for me.

 

[ngoforth]

I watched a video from winning in the wind . In it he said one of the chemicals in Free all was a solvent for nitrocellulose so it would work on powder fouling. I was wondering if smokeless powders are different enough chemically that different powder solvents would work better with different powders based on the chemicals in them. As an example, would freeall would work well on carbon from varget while not the carbon residue from H4350?

 

[Ironman308]

I tried it on a 6.5 using 4350 and it worked well. The 223 used Varget. They are both single base powders so they may have similar chemistry. I do not use duel base powders so I cannot comment on those.

 

[Dgd6mm]

You answered your own question. Everytime you used jb it got better. No shortcuts.

My personal thoughts on the ring, stop working it when the patch stops binding up. JB / IOSSO polish too much and then you get copper fowling like no tomorrow. These photos are from a barrel that now only gets used to expand brass. I took the carbon down as far as I did to get these photos to show others what happens regarding copper fowling - photo 3 is the point of the story.

Photos:

1. After JB (20 strokes, VFG green pellet)
2. After JB and IOSSO (20 VFG white and 30 strokes blue brush)
3. After above, 1 shot then cleaned with BBS, 10 shots total
4. After JB (30 minutes VFG green pellet, slow strokes)
5. After JB and a bronze brush - nothing more will come off.
   
   View attachment 1145388 View attachment 1145389 View attachment 1145390 View attachment 1145391View attachment 1145392

 

[Pete Wass]

Burn carbon is burnt carbon, regardless of which powder it originated from. The primary difference between powders might be in the trace minerals (non-combustible) left in the carbon fouling. The important thing to consider here is the difference between a "solvent" and a "chemical reactant". Regardless of what some may claim, there is no solvent known to man that will actually dissolve hard carbon deposits. At least not one that you'd ever put down a barrel. I'm talking about the burnt-in residue that looks like black volcanic glass. This would be analogous to finding a solvent that would dissolve graphite. Although graphite can certainly be broken down chemically, there is nothing readily available to dissolve it that we would ever actually put down a rifle bore. The same is true with carbon fouling. The only way to truly dissolve such deposits is by initiating further breakdown via a chemical reaction; i.e. the use of a strongly oxidizing acid such as nitric acid.

No one in their right mind is going to do that to a barrel, so we are left with a couple alternatives. The first is mechanical action, such as the use of a bronze brush or abrasive cleaners. The second is the use of something that helps to "suspend" the carbon residue so that it can be carried out of the bore, again, primarily by physical means. There is a big difference between a suspension and a solution. It is likely that the use of penetrating oils such as Kroil or Free All is beneficial because we are not actually dissolving the carbon deposits, but rather are lifting them up off the bore surface mechanically and removing them as re-suspended particles. Clearly, the penetrating oils seem to have a beneficial effect, likely both in terms of getting underneath the hard carbon so it can be physically removed from the bore surface by mechanical action more easily, and in keeping the carbon residue suspended once it has been lifted from the bore surface.

I have found Kroil helps in removing the black volcanic glass in the throat, but it really requires several days treatment; i.e. multiple wet patches/soaking a few hours/bronze brush treatment, repeated several times over the course of two or three days to really get most of it out. Having also used an abrasive cleaner (KG2) in the past for the same purpose, I'm not at all sure the Kroil treatment is any easier. Due to the comments in this thread, I have been meaning for some time to obtain some of the Free All and give it a whirl, but I never seemed to get around to it. I finally bought some a couple days ago and will give it a try.

Burn carbon is burnt carbon, regardless of which powder it originated from. The primary difference between powders might be in the trace minerals (non-combustible) left in the carbon fouling. The important thing to consider here is the difference between a "solvent" and a "chemical reactant". Regardless of what some may claim, there is no solvent known to man that will actually dissolve hard carbon deposits. At least not one that you'd ever put down a barrel. I'm talking about the burnt-in residue that looks like black volcanic glass. This would be analogous to finding a solvent that would dissolve graphite. Although graphite can certainly be broken down chemically, there is nothing readily available to dissolve it that we would ever actually put down a rifle bore. The same is true with carbon fouling. The only way to truly dissolve such deposits is by initiating further breakdown via a chemical reaction; i.e. the use of a strongly oxidizing acid such as nitric acid.

No one in their right mind is going to do that to a barrel, so we are left with a couple alternatives. The first is mechanical action, such as the use of a bronze brush or abrasive cleaners. The second is the use of something that helps to "suspend" the carbon residue so that it can be carried out of the bore, again, primarily by physical means. There is a big difference between a suspension and a solution. It is likely that the use of penetrating oils such as Kroil or Free All is beneficial because we are not actually dissolving the carbon deposits, but rather are lifting them up off the bore surface mechanically and removing them as re-suspended particles. Clearly, the penetrating oils seem to have a beneficial effect, likely both in terms of getting underneath the hard carbon so it can be physically removed from the bore surface by mechanical action more easily, and in keeping the carbon residue suspended once it has been lifted from the bore surface.

I have found Kroil helps in removing the black volcanic glass in the throat, but it really requires several days treatment; i.e. multiple wet patches/soaking a few hours/bronze brush treatment, repeated several times over the course of two or three days to really get most of it out. Having also used an abrasive cleaner (KG2) in the past for the same purpose, I'm not at all sure the Kroil treatment is any easier. Due to the comments in this thread, I have been meaning for some time to obtain some of the Free All and give it a whirl, but I never seemed to get around to it. I finally bought some a couple days ago and will give it a try.

Jumbo is a matter of perspective

 

[Murray Brook]

@Ned Ludd
I know this is an old thread, but I see where you posted you were going to give Free All a try. I was wondering if you could share your results. TKS

 

[Tesoro]

I'm just waiting to see anyone take my challenge of putting JB on a patch and rub it on the barrel and "remove metal".

I've done my own challenge.

Good luck removing anything from a barrel made out of steel with a JB patch with your fingers. See you in maybe a week of rubbing, if ever.

I guess people are lazy. The pacnor crowd taught me about JB. No need for anything else but some juice like No9. Full on dewey no harm brushes. Cheap n takes me 20 min from time i take rifle out of case to back in it. From filthy to shiny

 

[JEFFPPC]

@Ned Ludd
I know this is an old thread, but I see where you posted you were going to give Free All a try. I was wondering if you could share your results. TKS

Spit on a patch, it might even be better......and cheaper.

 

[Tcross]

I’m happy to see old threads like this come back to life. There is some really good content here.