MIL vs. MOA

[nmkid]

I keep mulling this over and have started to watch some YouTube videos. I'm 76 and have always had MOA scopes. Having recently beaten the Coronavirus and an almost life-ending kidney infection, (I only have one kidney) I'm starting to feel froggy and thinking about getting a MIL scope. If you are shooting MOA how hard would you think it would be to go MIL?

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Its all in how you embrace change and how much you actually used measurements. For a guy like me i dont even know the difference when i shoot since i move to impact not a number

 

[280ai]

i am 66 and started shooting prs 3 years ago. So i tried mil's and i took to it easy but because of years of doing moa i i stayed moa. Mils is mostly smaller increments of the same measurement. The young guns all do mils because they can divide 3.5 inches by 10 and come up with a finer movment. i stuck with moa because no matter what you read neither one is better just differnt. I have noticed if i am in a position were i have to think fast i do moa because like you tooooooo many years of moa! Good luck young man shoot straight and keep shooting until the last day i don't plan to stop shooting until i can't get to the range.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

MOA is in quarters, Mil is in tenths. A 1/4 moa adjustment is finer than a 1/10 mil adjustment, if smaller value "clicks" are important.

 

[D-4297]

I may be wrong on this , but I don't think you're going to find to many Mil scopes at any F-Class Match . Most better quality MOA scopes are 1/8 click adjustments , and that is a pretty fine adjustment to walk that round into the X-ring from the edge of a Ten .

 

[RustyInBend]

I went from MOA to MIL because all the spotters in the competitions at my local range called misses in MIL's, and if you had an MOA scope, you had to do the math on the fly while trying to line up your next shot. Frankly, MOA is easier and at times I wish I'd stayed there.

 

[shoot4fun]

I keep mulling this over and have started to watch some YouTube videos. I'm 76 and have always had MOA scopes. Having recently beaten the Coronavirus and an almost life-ending kidney infection, (I only have one kidney) I'm starting to feel froggy and thinking about getting a MIL scope. If you are shooting MOA how hard would you think it would be to go MIL?

First, glad you're still with us! In long range BR and on my hunting rifles the scopes are MOA. Everything else is Mil. The initial hard part of the MOA/MIL debate was deciphering the MOA data from shooting buddies. Now going MOA to MIL is easy but when given a shot call in MOA how one converts that info in the brain in the brain is not until you remember a simple formula. The Mil value X 3.44=MOA and the MOA value X .29= MIL value (approximate).

 

[CharlieNC]

What type of shooting will you be doing? Roughly the standard 0.1 mil increment is 0.35 moa, as compared to the standard 0.25 moa increment. Aiming at small paper targets, the 1/8 moa scopes offer finer aiming capability which is useful for fclass shooting for score, etc. When field shooting at multiple distances the 0.1 increments are more intuitive for dialing dope. In terms of displacement 1moa is approx 1in at 100yd, while 1mil is 1/1000 of the distance so the math is just as simple to do in your head. Both are just angular measurements.

 

[Mauser06]

Really depends on your "game"


I understand MOA enough.

But I'm a steel shooter now....and all the shooters I shoot with shoot PRS. They speak in MILs. I still have very little understanding of what a MIL is or 3 tenths. But, I understand my reticle so if someone says a shot fell 3 tenths left and 6 tenths low I can correct through my reticle or on the turrets.


I know it's easier on my brain to dial 9mil not 26moa at 1k. My MOA scope wasn't on the same shelf as my MIL scope but I was always lost on my MOA scope. MY MIL scope I don't go a full revolution make shots at 1k.



If I was shooting MOA score rings, I'd have a MOA scope and reticle. Same as if my "game" was one where everyone was speaking in MOA..Just makes sense to me.

 

[Jarhead6870]

I work with new shooters all the time and it depends on your purpose. As mentioned above, turret value becomes important if shooting F-Class or Benchrest because of 1/8 turrets (think fine thread vs course thread) and wanting to adjust for a scoring ring. Also, the type of reticle you are using makes a difference. I always use reticles with graduated stadia and use the line increments for making adjustments, just like reading a tape measure. If doing this, there's no conversion and it makes no difference whether it's MIL or MOA; it's just a number.

Difficulties can arise when spotting for a shooter who has a SFP scope and a simple or post/dot type reticle and cannot give a measurement of a target in the language of their turrets. If using a MIL spotter and calling for a shooter using MOA then calling corrections can be cumbersome.

 

[NETim]

You must be one tough son of a gun!! Good job!

Never give up!! Never surrender!

 

[Dave M.]

I keep mulling this over and have started to watch some YouTube videos. I'm 76 and have always had MOA scopes. Having recently beaten the Coronavirus and an almost life-ending kidney infection, (I only have one kidney) I'm starting to feel froggy and thinking about getting a MIL scope. If you are shooting MOA how hard would you think it would be to go MIL?

I truly think you must be getting foggy. I made this mistake when I first started shooting long range F Open and I was THE ONLY guy on the line shooting a MIL scope. Unless you are fresh out of the military, I would stick to MOA MOA scopes.
dave

 

[DirtySteve]

Think of one click on the mil scope (1/10 mil) as .4 Moa. Or round up to a half. Both systems are good

 

[Dave M.]

i am 66 and started shooting prs 3 years ago. So i tried mil's and i took to it easy but because of years of doing moa i i stayed moa. Mils is mostly smaller increments of the same measurement. The young guns all do mils because they can divide 3.5 inches by 10 and come up with a finer movment. i stuck with moa because no matter what you read neither one is better just differnt. I have noticed if i am in a position were i have to think fast i do moa because like you tooooooo many years of moa! Good luck young man shoot straight and keep shooting until the last day i don't plan to stop shooting until i can't get to the range.

An 1/8 MOA click scope has smaller adjustment increments than a 0.05 MIL click scope

 

[shoot4fun]

There are some MIL value target scopes on the market and they do offer tighter adjustments than the normal .1 mil value on the typical mil scopes. For matches I shoot (steel) that have time limits and varying distances all shot without sighters I prefer MIL but. I use 1/8 MOA turrets for 600/1000 yard BR because a normal .1 mil can throw you from one side of the ten run to the other with one click.
Still can't shoot score for S%%T!

 

[Rob01]

I keep mulling this over and have started to watch some YouTube videos. I'm 76 and have always had MOA scopes. Having recently beaten the Coronavirus and an almost life-ending kidney infection, (I only have one kidney) I'm starting to feel froggy and thinking about getting a MIL scope. If you are shooting MOA how hard would you think it would be to go MIL?

It's the same but you just run data in mils and dial on a different number. If you can use MOA then you can use mils. Don't stress it.

Biggest thing with either angular unit is don't think in any linear like inches or cm. No need at all and only thing it will do is make your head hurt.

 

[moondog]

All the guys I shoot with are mil. I'm probably the only one shooting moa in my group. I get crap for it but like you, I've been shooting moa from the start. Too many scopes now and more years behind me than ahead. It really isn't a problem with our group, everyone is calling out wind values. If its a 10mph 9:00 wind, it doesn't matter if its moa or mil.

 

[miningshawn]

I shoot a lot of PRS, and I am typically the only person shooting MOA.
When I took the snipercentral course a few years ago, I was also the only person shooting MOA.
Why not change? It's a no brainer for me. I think in inches and feet. The adjustments are much easier in MOA for an imperial thinker. I don't do centimeters and meters very well.
The math just works for me.
When I pair up for a competition I can speak mils if I have to, but I will always look for a fellow MOA shooter instead.

But "come up 2 mils" does sound more tactical and cool....

 

[Rob01]

I shoot a lot of PRS, and I am typically the only person shooting MOA.
When I took the snipercentral course a few years ago, I was also the only person shooting MOA.
Why not change? It's a no brainer for me. I think in inches and feet. The adjustments are much easier in MOA for an imperial thinker. I don't do centimeters and meters very well.
The math just works for me.
When I pair up for a competition I can speak mils if I have to, but I will always look for a fellow MOA shooter instead.

But "come up 2 mils" does sound more tactical and cool....

If you stopped thinking linear you could use either without issue. No need for it at all. Everyone I know who uses mils does nothing in metric becasue there is no need. Only place to use linear is target range. Example, your ballistic program says dial on 20moa for your target range so you do. You miss and use the reticle as a ruler to tell you you were 1 moa low and 2 moa right. Make the adjustment in either a hold or dialing it on and shoot again. Hit. Where was the linear? No where. Same for mils. If you are looking at the target to figure how wide it is to figure a wind hold point it doesn't matter how many inches it is. You again use the reticle and it's say 1.5 moa wide and your wind call is fluctustuing between 1 to 1.5 mils right so you know to hold left edge or a little off. Where were the inches? No where. People who say they think in something are just making their life harder and doing conversions where none are needed. The scopes adjust and have reticle in angular. No place for linear. When I was teaching precision rifle I could watch the bulb go off over people's heads when they came to this realization and how they were making their life so much harder trying to convert inches to any angular.

 

[miningshawn]

If you stopped thinking linear you could use either without issue. No need for it at all. Everyone I know who uses mils does nothing in metric becasue there is no need. Only place to use linear is target range. Example, your ballistic program says dial on 20moa for your target range so you do. You miss and use the reticle as a ruler to tell you you were 1 moa low and 2 moa right. Make the adjustment in either a hold or dialing it on and shoot again. Hit. Where was the linear? No where. Same for mils. If you are looking at the target to figure how wide it is to figure a wind hold point it doesn't matter how many inches it is. You again use the reticle and it's say 1.5 moa wide and your wind call is fluctustuing between 1 to 1.5 mils right so you know to hold left edge or a little off. Where were the inches? No where. People who say they think in something are just making their life harder and doing conversions where none are needed. The scopes adjust and have reticle in angular. No place for linear. When I was teaching precision rifle I could watch the bulb go off over people's heads when they came to this realization and how they were making their life so much harder trying to convert inches to any angular.

It matters to me when I don't know the range! I know a deer is xxx inches tall through the chest, an elk is xxx inches tall, etc... I don't think of a groundhog as 20cm when standing.
When shooting a course of fire with unknown distance, the targets always seem to be given in inches. When given a target size it is almost always given as "x inches by x inches" or in MOA.
Using an FFP scope and some very easy math I can easily determine range to that target.
I agree that once dialed or if using a known distance, there is no advantage to either system.