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38 Smith and Wesson Cartridge?

While visiting with a fellow at church yesterday, he said that he had an old revolver that had belonged to his grandfather and that it was a 5 shot, top break, chambered in 38 Smith and Wesson, which was engraved on the barrel. He said it was not a Smith and Wesson brand and that ammunition was no longer available for it.

I have never heard of that cartridge and didn't find anything in a couple searches from the web. Can anyone shed some light on this?

Thanks,
Richard
 
It was popular amongst the british. Seems like there was also a 38/200 that was almost exact round. I had a S&W victory from WWII that was converted to 38spl. Cases would stick lile crazy in it. Seems like the 38sw was actually bigger in diamter than the special. Mine had been returned from the war and reamed to special since that was more popular in the US. Traded it because of the sticking cases. Would have been a nice convefsation piece jhad i kept it. Try this, https://americangunfacts.com/38-sw-vs-38-special/
 
Thank you! I figured someone here would know.

During our conversation, this fellow said that he had kept some ammunition for it but his grandson had shot them all up. He did keep the brass though and there is some hope that they can be reloaded. Is there any sources for dies?
 
I shoot a fair bit of 38 s&b. Only glitch to reloading is the bullets are .362, so you will pretty much have to shoot cast. There are a few companies selling bullets if you don’t want to cast your own. Starline makes brass as well if you need more.
 
Ammo is available, although I'm not sure it is right now because its not a popular round. I have a nice RAF marked Enfield MKII. I gather the Brits developed it because it was cheap and the .455 recoil was a bother to some or so thought. The 38/200 is still a very anemic round. Rex Applegate used one on an adversary when he was in the far east and had to empty the revolver to settle matters. He gave up on it. Never bring a handgun to a rifle fight and certainly not an anemic one :)

Regarding the American top breaks in 38 S&W its my understanding they may not be proofed for the 38/200 round, but I'm not 100% on that point.
 
Thank you! I figured someone here would know.

During our conversation, this fellow said that he had kept some ammunition for it but his grandson had shot them all up. He did keep the brass though and there is some hope that they can be reloaded. Is there any sources for dies?
Starline makes brass for the 38 S&W. Available in 500 minimum for $112. I gather they protect their dealers by selling only in large amounts leaving the 50 or 100 counts to the dealers. You can backorder it now. Search around you may find some lesser quantities somewhere.
 
My grandmother had a 5 shot top break Smith chambered in the 38 s&w chambering, nickle plated with pearl grips and it was in nice shape. When my father passed, my brother decided that there was never going to be a harsh word about his positions and who got them, and there has not been even one. There was a coin toss and I lost, he got the 38 and a nice 22 Remington bolt action, and i got a stevens 12 gage single shot. My youngest daughter was put on suicide watch, she wanted that revolver so bad. My brother says he will take offers but my daughter hasn't replied yet.
 
Here is a link to Buffalo Arms, they have brass..
 
I inherited a Colt Police Positive Special in .38 S&W a couple of years ago. I'm using the Starline Brass. Missouri Bullet Company had the right bullet.....but this was before the current shortages.

 
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NOE363MKI<br>200 gr.
NOE363MKI
200 gr.
This bullet copies the military Mk. I bullet used in the Webley and S&W .38/200 revolvers.

These bullets would tumble when they hit their Target, Described as Horribly Devastating Wounds.

I have a a couple hundred intended for my 35rem.
 
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It is an oldie and popular back in the 30-40's mainly in the USA. The 38 S&W cartridge is slightly larger in diameter on bullet size than the 38 special, which replaced it.
Some are still around and the old handguns, if checked out as it safe condition can still be shot and here and there you will find a old box of 38 S&W on a shelf in a gun store.
 
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I owned a blued Great Western derringer in 38 S&W. Traded
it off for a 9 shot H&R .22.....Carry load for the derringer was
148 gr full wad cutter loaded upside down with black powder.
The black powder made for one hell of an effect.
 
I owned a blued Great Western derringer in 38 S&W. Traded
it off for a 9 shot H&R .22.....Carry load for the derringer was
148 gr full wad cutter loaded upside down with black powder.
The black powder made for one hell of an effect.
I still have one of those someone gave me in college. A genuine, unadulterated POS :)

If I recall the company was touted by Elmer Keith. I think they lasted from 1954 to about 64 but never were financially sound. Dan Reeves was reported to be an early investor.
 
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Alongside being a popular self-defence round in the UK and US, the British Army adopted the Enfield No.2 series of break-open revolvers in the early 30s shooting a heavy bullet variant of the 38 S&W called .38/200 (from the 200gn bullet), and it was the standard British military sidearm for around 30 years. It replaced the similar design, but larger/heavier Webley MkVI and its .455 cartridge.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enfield_No._2

The little 38 S&W round was no manstopper, but it was hoped the heavy soft lead bullet would make up for its deficiencies to some extent. Then when war looked likely in the late 30s, people got cold feet over whether there would be accusations that the round broke the Hague Convention rules on expanding bullets in war. So a 178gn FMJ jacketed bullet replaced the lead variety just before WW2. (In WW1, the Germans threatened to treat the 455 as an illegal round because of the lead bullet and were prepared to start shooting any captured officers carrying the revolver and its ammunition. IIRC, the Brits counter-threatened by saying they'd shoot a German officer PoW for every one of theirs executed.) In any event, it was taken seriously in 1938/39, hence the jacketed bullet version.

The 38 MKIIz 178gn FMJ cartridge was useless in any practical situation. It was notorious for failing to propel bullets right through the barrel and stacking bullets up in it until the cylinder locked up. (To be fair, much of that was probably post-war with old ammunition when revolvers and ammo were sold off as surplus.) I used to shoot with a fellow in the early 80s who was an infantry 2nd lieutenant in the 1960s and took part in the 'police action' in Aden against Arab insurgents who eventually forced the Brits out. This was like an early IS or whatever event with hyped-up and fundamentalist fighters attacking sole or small groups of soldiers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aden_Emergency

My friend was walking down a street with an NCO who was carrying a 7.62 L1A1 rifle (British Army version of the FN FAL) when they were charged out of nowhere by an insurgent running at them head-on, full pelt and swinging what my friend called a 'bloody great knife'. The NCO 'froze', and the lieutenant emptied his 38 S&W service revolver into the man's torso, the last shot when he was almost in touching distance. It didn't stop or even slow him and he nearly killed the officer who lost an ear. He was down on one knee having just dodged the first swipe and was helpless as the attacker swivelled and raised the knife for a second go. Luckily, the corporal 'unfroze' at this point and shot the Arab with his rifle at around 6ft range. ('That stopped him OK!' said my friend.)

Anyway, when he was discharged from hospital, his first act was to throw 'the bloody useless revolver' into the harbour as soon as it got dark ('lost in action') and replace it with a 9mm Browning 'Hi-Power', also carried a rifle whenever he could. He was told that afterwards that he'd got five good central hits on the guy, none of which exited. No doubt he'd have bled out soon afterwards from his wounds, but too late for my mate.

I bought a mint 1934 dated Enfield in original unissued condition still with the high foresight blade for the 200gn bullet installed sometime in the mid or late 80s. Reduced to £35 from £50 by my local gunshop as it wasn't getting any takers. A very nice little pistol and I got the reloading gear, but it wasn't exactly accurate due to the bullet issue. As @S_Kyle says they take larger dia. bullets and none were available here then. Thousands were sold off in Britain after WW2 as surplus. mostly the less desirable D/A spur-less model, for as little as just a couple of pounds if dealers bought them in bulk. I'm pretty sure I saw a surplus wartime US made S&W revolver too in 38S&W. IIRC we bought thousands of what was normally a 38 Spcl revolver under the Lend-Lease arrangements as RSAF Enfield Lock couldn't make anything like enough of them in 1939/40. (Enfield Lock was later turned over to making nothing but 303 Bren LMGs for most of the war once new factories or suppliers were set up for its other smallarms.)
 
Don't have a pistol but do have a full box of Western X, 145gr Luballoy nickle plated 38 S&W ammo. Guess my mom found it in the house years after my dad died but he never had a 38 S&W. Back of box it lists velocity of 685fps & 150ft lbs energy.
 

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