Neck turning survey

[PracticalTactical]

Practical Tactical
you can control both neck tension and donuts if u inline, inside neck ream.

Merrill Martin wrote several articles in PS years ago about the above process. I started using that process years ago On all my NRA HP MR and LR rifles. Over several firings necks thicken and the neck thickness needs to be addressed. Any donuts that are beginning to form ( and they always do) are removed in this process as well. You can feel the necks thickening if u run ur brass over an expanding/ uniforming mandrel after sizing . Then it’s time to run the reamer thru the neck n trim out the excess. This process is performed in a die that holds the case in alignment as a reamer is run in thru the top of the die. Keeps things aligned with the centerline of the case.
I always thought Merrill was a very innovative guy.

I may have a copy of that PS as it does sound familiar, but I have never gone so far as to purchase anything for inside neck reaming. I could never find a product that I had enough confidence in to purchase.

If there is something out there that works really well, I'd certainly like to hear about it.

 

[PopCharlie]

True, but a word of caution... If you have a controlled round feed action, read no further. If you have a Rem 700 style ejector spring, take a close look at your case mouths after ejection... The strength of a factory ejector spring is strong enough to deform the mouth of the case.

Once its D shaped, the bullet will find resistance even if the neck is well cleared.

It's easy enough to remove the spring and shorten it until it is not strong enough to inflict meaningful damage.

The D dent on your case mouth is also a contributing factor to post resize neck runout.

Absolutely true....I've shortened the springs in all 3 of my rifles. Less disturbance to my bench set up as well.
PopCharlie

 

[wildcatter]

I may have a copy of that PS as it does sound familiar, but I have never gone so far as to purchase anything for inside neck reaming. I could never find a product that I had enough confidence in to purchase.

If there is something out there that works really well, I'd certainly like to hear about it.

I agree, and that is why I like the K'n'M carbide pilot with the donut cutter. It works well, and is the only pilot I use, I sold my Sinclair set which was an excellent neck turning system in itself. But I feel the K'n'M is a step up, in both finish results, and easier to setup for a certain cut, with the ability to take any doughnut if there is any, even the slightest amount protruding is a thing of the past with one cut. It worked well but if your happy with a system like this, I think the K'n'M will impress you.


My K'n'M with the carbide inside cutting pilot in place 1 and done turning.

 

[PracticalTactical]

I'm going to have to order a couple of those carbide pilots. Thanks Wildcater!

 

[Dave M.]

Why would it matter?

The question is, do you want to control neck tension better now, or later?

Fire forming the case ensures the body is fully blown out to the chamber, so we are really just talking about the corner at the neck to shoulder where we get donuts.

So, that brings us to a question of how far into the neck you seat bullets...

If you are seating bullets forward of the donut, the existence of a donut is a moot point and will have no effect on anything.

If you are seating into the donut, then its a discussion of how best to remove it, or a discussion of throat length that would allow you to seat bullets with the bearing surface ahead of the donut.

If you have a donut on the brass you have other issues. I’m not a noob and have had quite a bit of F class success. I’ve just never seen this marking on new brass that I turned.

 

[PracticalTactical]

If you have a donut on the brass you have other issues. I’m not a noob and have had quite a bit of F class success. I’ve just never seen this marking on new brass that I turned.

I'm not following you...

Brass grows in length with each firing. That means brass from the body and shoulder is moving forward from a large surface area of thick material and migrating forward into the thinner smaller surface area of the neck.

This creates a bulge on the inside of the neck at the neck to shoulder intersection point that we call a donut. This concept is well documented.

OAL growth does depend on side wall and shoulder angles, so softer shoulder angles tend to grow in length more than something more abrupt.

If you are truly not getting donuts, you have a special set of conditions that needs to be investigated.

Please explain how your set up defies these long standing challenges for precision hand loaders all over the world. What is it about your process that makes this not occur?

 

[wildcatter]

If you have a donut on the brass you have other issues. I’m not a noob and have had quite a bit of F class success. I’ve just never seen this marking on new brass that I turned.

Please tell us the marking you are referring to that is visible, I have yet to see any doughnut shown on this thread.

Please tell us what brass you have turned and what caliber it was altered too? the more you turn, the more doughnut you are going to experience, and me going from .323" down to .243" creates a very thick neck, requiring a deep cut even to get .003" clearance on a no turn chamber, trust me, you will not avoid a doughnut!

 

[Dave M.]

Fire it once and turn it again with the same setup on your cutter.

That worked perfect

 

[PJ1]

This might be heretical to say, but as best I can tell, neck turning is a hygiene thing - it helps to sort out the oddball 1 in 100 outlier case, but at the end of the day does not make or break a load and is largely not needed unless case forming requires it. My most accurate rilfe is set up for no turn necks. Given all that, when I do turn, I do it once, right out of the box. If you do it carefully, it works just fine. Milage may vary.

That said, it's pretty common to turn after firing the first firing (and before if you need to in order to chamber the brass).

Bryan Litz (Berger Bullet ) did a yt video where he stated that with today's brass technology, it really wasn't necessary to neck turn. I'm relatively new to all of this, but judging from the reactions of folks, he dispelled more than a few traditional notions........Primer seating depth, use of abrasive paste for cleaning barrels, neck turning, ect. Rather interesting to hear and it may be worth listening to.

Definitely stepped on some toes.

 

[Dave M.]

Bryan Litz (Berger Bullet ) did a yt video where he stated that with today's brass technology, it really wasn't necessary to neck turn. I'm relatively new to all of this, but judging from the reactions of folks, he dispelled more than a few traditional notions........Primer seating depth, use of abrasive paste for cleaning barrels, neck turning, ect. Rather interesting to hear and it may be worth listening to.

Definitely stepped on some toes.

Can you send the link. I love Bryan’s books

 

[PJ1]

Can you send the link. I love Bryan’s books

Sure:

I think it is about 53 minutes long. Looks to be part of a series of Applied Ballistics videos.

 

[mikecr]

Just curious when others are neck turning. I tried turning a few pieces of brand new Peterson 6 dasher brass after sizing and using the correct turning mandrel.

Have you tried turning without sizing (other than mandrel expansion).
I never downsize necks before turning.

 

[fkimble@charter.net]

Practical Tactical: The easy way to prevent case neck denting on a 700 style ejector for the purpose of testing bullet insertion to check for clearance, is to put your finger on the case at the front of the ejection port as it is pulled back. May take a couple tries to find the spot were it tries to start its out ward move. Enough finger pressure an it will stay straight all the way back and not hit the action when clearing the back end of the barrel. But yes, that spring is on the stout side!

Frank

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Practical Tactical: The easy way to prevent case neck denting on a 700 style ejector for the purpose of testing bullet insertion to check for clearance, is to put your finger on the case at the front of the ejection port as it is pulled back. May take a couple tries to find the spot were it tries to start its out ward move. Enough finger pressure an it will stay straight all the way back and not hit the action when clearing the back end of the barrel. But yes, that spring is on the stout side!

Frank

Most gunsmiths fix that when they build one