Neck turning survey

[Dave M.]

Just curious when others are neck turning. I tried turning a few pieces of brand new Peterson 6 dasher brass after sizing and using the correct turning mandrel. The results were nowhere near as consistent and the Lapua brass that I have turned post fireforming. The Peterson new brass did not cleanly cut into the neck shoulder junction and actually left a slight spotty ring of cut brass in the shoulder. I’m using the 43 deg cutter which should be perfect with the 40 deg shoulder (see picture below). Just wondering if you guys turn after firing a couple times? Or when you are turning?

 

[LVLAaron]

Fire it once and turn it again with the same setup on your cutter.

 

[Ccrider]

Yep. What he ^^^^ said. Your shoulders need forming.

 

[bozo699]

What the first two replies said
Wayne

 

[Ranger188]

So what if your running a tight neck and it needs to be turn some first to chamber?
Still the same, turn a little off and then fire and turn again?

 

[Dusty Stevens]

So what if your running a tight neck and it needs to be turn some first to chamber?
Still the same, turn a little off and then fire and turn again?

Yes

 

[PopCharlie]

For my 6br, with a .266 neck, I turn in 2 steps. On virgin brass, step one is to turn them from .013 to .011. Step 2 is turning them from .011 to. 009. Then I fire the cases 3 times, annealing after each firing. Then turn the back to .009. I usually only take off a very small amount of brass at this point. I use the PMA model B first, then the model A. They make a really smooth cut. The cutters are carbide, and are parallel to the mandrel. Very precise.
For my .223 and 6.5x47L, I do not initially turn the necks. I check them after every fire/anneal/sizing cycle. If I see more than .0015 variation in neck wall thickness, I turn the necks to .012 to clean them up. I'll turn the whole batch, usually 25 pieces in a batch.
BTW: I use an Amp annealer. Once the necks are turned, I run one thru Aztec for analysis.
PopCharlie

 

[Dave M.]

Great replies guys. For a no neck turn rifle, Would you suggest firing first and then turning? Or doing a first cut, firing and then final cut?

 

[bozo699]

Great replies guys. For a no neck turn rifle, Would you suggest firing first and then turning? Or doing a first cut, firing and then final cut?

If it were me in a no turn chamber and all I wanted was uniformity I would fire them,then do a skim turn just taking maybe 80% you can create problems turning to much.
Wayne

 

[Bill Norris]

If it were me in a no turn chamber and all I wanted was uniformity I would fire them,then do a skim turn just taking maybe 80% you can create problems turning to much.
Wayne

Absolutely. I have seen that by taking too much off while performing the skim turn "clean-up" results in the need to move down in bushing size and therefore creates moving the brash even more when sizing due to the chamber neck area remaining the same. This over time will over-work the brass and cause it to harden sooner.

 

[dcali]

This might be heretical to say, but as best I can tell, neck turning is a hygiene thing - it helps to sort out the oddball 1 in 100 outlier case, but at the end of the day does not make or break a load and is largely not needed unless case forming requires it. My most accurate rilfe is set up for no turn necks. Given all that, when I do turn, I do it once, right out of the box. If you do it carefully, it works just fine. Milage may vary.

That said, it's pretty common to turn after firing the first firing (and before if you need to in order to chamber the brass).

 

[Dave M.]

If it were me in a no turn chamber and all I wanted was uniformity I would fire them,then do a skim turn just taking maybe 80% you can create problems turning to much.
Wayne

Exactly what I plan to do

 

[JFrank]

For my BR-A with .268 neck I turn the virgin brass once with a 30 degree cutter then FF.

 

[PracticalTactical]

Great replies guys. For a no neck turn rifle, Would you suggest firing first and then turning? Or doing a first cut, firing and then final cut?

Why would it matter?

The question is, do you want to control neck tension better now, or later?

Fire forming the case ensures the body is fully blown out to the chamber, so we are really just talking about the corner at the neck to shoulder where we get donuts.

So, that brings us to a question of how far into the neck you seat bullets...

If you are seating bullets forward of the donut, the existence of a donut is a moot point and will have no effect on anything.

If you are seating into the donut, then its a discussion of how best to remove it, or a discussion of throat length that would allow you to seat bullets with the bearing surface ahead of the donut.

 

[BCBRAD]

Why would it matter?

The question is, do you want to control neck tension better now, or later?

Fire forming the case ensures the body is fully blown out to the chamber, so we are really just talking about the corner at the neck to shoulder where we get donuts.

So, that brings us to a question of how far into the neck you seat bullets...

If you are seating bullets forward of the donut, the existence of a donut is a moot point and will have no effect on anything.

If you are seating into the donut, then its a discussion of how best to remove it, or a discussion of throat length that would allow you to seat bullets with the bearing surface ahead of the donut.

Alternatively, if you use a Lee neck collet die the 'donut' will be on the outside where it is easily turned off.
The indicator will be slightly stiff bolt closure.

 

[PopCharlie]

One more thing I learned about neck turning:
If I can easily push a bullet thru a fired, unsized case, it means the neck is at a good thickness. I only turn those cases if the variation in neck wall is too great.
PopCharlie

 

[wildcatter]

I started taking my neck turning regardless of cartridge to the next level, fire form it first!

I just started doing this with a real challenging conversion, since the only good Lapua brass that they offer to fit the Mauser length cases is 8x57 and I just built a 6mm Rem AI, I had to really move the brass and get to 6mm, this really fattens the neck. But once run up in my 6mm Remington die, after trips thru the 7mm Mauser, 257 Roberts, then the 6mm Rem, I used 14 grains of Bullseye ans filled the case with corn cob polishing media and capped them with dove bar soap, loaded them in the new chamber and bang, that chore is done!

The next thing obviously is to turn the necks now to what you want for your chamber. The thing is when you do this and turn them they are ready, and donuts are less of a issue. But you are now turning the brass matched to the chamber they will be used in.

For such a drastic change in neck dia on my 6mm brass from the 8mm, I was amazed how consistent this lot of brass turned out. I know how well doing it this way for other cases is going to be, so I will be doing my 6BR and 6PPC and 6x47 brass this way from now on, it makes for one cut perfection!

this is ready to form, formed, and bullet seated in formed case for measuring to setup the turner, neck and shoulder are then both cut to perfection and ready for a long life of loadings! I also will have whatever clearance or interference dimension you want, perfection with one cut, and already formed to your chamber!

 

[Bob3700]

Practical Tactical
you can control both neck tension and donuts if u inline, inside neck ream.

Merrill Martin wrote several articles in PS years ago about the above process. I started using that process years ago On all my NRA HP MR and LR rifles. Over several firings necks thicken and the neck thickness needs to be addressed. Any donuts that are beginning to form ( and they always do) are removed in this process as well. You can feel the necks thickening if u run ur brass over an expanding/ uniforming mandrel after sizing . Then it’s time to run the reamer thru the neck n trim out the excess. This process is performed in a die that holds the case in alignment as a reamer is run in thru the top of the die. Keeps things aligned with the centerline of the case.
I always thought Merrill was a very innovative guy.

 

[wildcatter]

Practical Tactical
you can control both neck tension and donuts if u inline, inside neck ream.

Merrill Martin wrote several articles in PS years ago about the above process. I started using that process years ago On all my NRA HP MR and LR rifles. Over several firings necks thicken and the neck thickness needs to be addressed. Any donuts that are beginning to form ( and they always do) are removed in this process as well. You can feel the necks thickening if u run ur brass over an expanding/ uniforming mandrel after sizing . Then it’s time to run the reamer thru the neck n trim out the excess. This process is performed in a die that holds the case in alignment as a reamer is run in thru the top of the die. Keeps things aligned with the centerline of the case.
I always thought Merrill was a very innovative guy.

Thats a lot of work with ancient tools. K'n'M will clean the inside and out in one step with their optional turning pilot, but I have to say, in the first 5 firings this 6mm Ackley brass ain't moved! I've shot bench rest with 6ppc and 6BR tall dogs and never turned necks before the brass was ready to retire.

I learned over 30 years ago, as did most guys competing, fitted neck's was not the way to win! As we learned in time back then how to use a body die to bump are shoulders and keep our brass in tune over just using a neck sizer! There has been a lot of change for the good since that was wrote, including better components and tools.

 

[PracticalTactical]

One more thing I learned about neck turning:
If I can easily push a bullet thru a fired, unsized case, it means the neck is at a good thickness. I only turn those cases if the variation in neck wall is too great.
PopCharlie

True, but a word of caution... If you have a controlled round feed action, read no further. If you have a Rem 700 style ejector spring, take a close look at your case mouths after ejection... The strength of a factory ejector spring is strong enough to deform the mouth of the case.

Once its D shaped, the bullet will find resistance even if the neck is well cleared.

It's easy enough to remove the spring and shorten it until it is not strong enough to inflict meaningful damage.

The D dent on your case mouth is also a contributing factor to post resize neck runout.