I thought I was going crazy for a couple of years. All I read was to have a little cam over for best results sizing my brass, I tried everything and my brass would always come out with 8-12 thousands bump. So I finally decided that I was the only person in the country that would bump 2 thousands and not have any cam over. I get half to one thousands variance but I can't figure out any other way. At least now I know I'm not going crazy.
Redding Competition Shellholder / Whidden Die / Zero Press
- Thread starter scyzer
- Start date
RegionRat
Gold $$ Contributor
Yes, but....
You would have to use the incremental style shell holders for this to work at all, and more importantly, to have control over bump Dusty.
The numbers on those shell plates are the dimension above nominal shell plate dimensions, which combine with any particular die to your point... So for example, the +2, +4, +6, etc. effectively extends the shoulder datum of the die. Unless a chamber is cut really short, and a die is made long, you would be able to make yourself happy.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!!!
RegionRat
Gold $$ Contributor
If the die isn't making hard contact in this context, something is amiss...
The values wouldn't correlate and then if you did for example move down 2 mils by going to the +0.006" shell plate, and suddenly close the gap, I think you would loose control.
Cam over due to other issues, doesn't really mean the same thing since dies and shell holders are based on industry standard concepts.
You will find something eventually. Keep looking and good luck.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.
RegionRat
Gold $$ Contributor
This has happened to me several times. They sent me good ones when I have shown them the inspections and they agreed. The point is important, inspect all your shell holders regardless.
RegionRat
Gold $$ Contributor
I’ve had a few barrels that were either headspaced long, the die was short, or both being off, causing wide variances.
The worst that I’ve seen was .008-.010”, when adjusting the die for cam over.
I always strip the bolt/ejector, size until the bolt almost drops fully with gravity and consider that as a perfect fit. You can use that measurement, taken with calipers, and bump back another 1-3K for a common fit that most like.
As long as I lube the cases close to the same, my measurements usually come out to within a 1/2K, regardless if the die is not touching the shell holder.
If you can’t get a consistent bump without cam over, the best method that I’ve found is using shims. McMaster Carr carries a decent selection. You can get the 1/2”-5/8” slotted shims in .001-.010” increments. Just insert the case in the shell holder, place the slotted portion so it fits around the case, and sits on top of the shell holder. The shim will give the same feel as the shell holder does.
Another thing that I noticed last year, when using the AMP machine, is when you use the Aztec mode to generate the code for your brass, it may still be annealing on the lite side so some cases will be under annealed, causing them to bump less than cases that were annealed correctly. You can adjust the time, after the code is entered, to add annealing time so all the brass is more uniform.
The worst that I’ve seen was .008-.010”, when adjusting the die for cam over.
I always strip the bolt/ejector, size until the bolt almost drops fully with gravity and consider that as a perfect fit. You can use that measurement, taken with calipers, and bump back another 1-3K for a common fit that most like.
As long as I lube the cases close to the same, my measurements usually come out to within a 1/2K, regardless if the die is not touching the shell holder.
If you can’t get a consistent bump without cam over, the best method that I’ve found is using shims. McMaster Carr carries a decent selection. You can get the 1/2”-5/8” slotted shims in .001-.010” increments. Just insert the case in the shell holder, place the slotted portion so it fits around the case, and sits on top of the shell holder. The shim will give the same feel as the shell holder does.
Another thing that I noticed last year, when using the AMP machine, is when you use the Aztec mode to generate the code for your brass, it may still be annealing on the lite side so some cases will be under annealed, causing them to bump less than cases that were annealed correctly. You can adjust the time, after the code is entered, to add annealing time so all the brass is more uniform.
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Whidden FL Click-Adjust sizing die.
"2. Screw the Sizer die into the press until it just touches the shell holder, then rotate the die counter clockwise approximately 1/3 of a turn. This is your preliminary adjustment. Screw the lock ring down snug to the press but do not tighten the lock ring set screw at this point."
"3. Install the supplied shoulder bump gauge on your calipers. Measure your brass to determine headspace. Note: This should be done with a fired piece of brass from the rifle you intend to reload for. Once you have your headspace measurement you can to adjust the Sizer die downward (Clockwise) a click or two at a time to establish your desired shoulder bump. One click of adjustment will result in 0.001’’ of shoulder bump. Continue adjusting your die down until you have bumped the shoulder the desired amount. "
Use a standard shell holder. Back die out 1/3 turn. Follow instructions. https://www.whiddengunworks.com/click-adjustable-die-instructions/
"2. Screw the Sizer die into the press until it just touches the shell holder, then rotate the die counter clockwise approximately 1/3 of a turn. This is your preliminary adjustment. Screw the lock ring down snug to the press but do not tighten the lock ring set screw at this point."
"3. Install the supplied shoulder bump gauge on your calipers. Measure your brass to determine headspace. Note: This should be done with a fired piece of brass from the rifle you intend to reload for. Once you have your headspace measurement you can to adjust the Sizer die downward (Clockwise) a click or two at a time to establish your desired shoulder bump. One click of adjustment will result in 0.001’’ of shoulder bump. Continue adjusting your die down until you have bumped the shoulder the desired amount. "
Use a standard shell holder. Back die out 1/3 turn. Follow instructions. https://www.whiddengunworks.com/click-adjustable-die-instructions/
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My grandkids don't know what this means. Or quarter to 10 (9:45)
RegionRat
Gold $$ Contributor
Yup. I can forgive your grandkids since they will get an education before long if you are around...
But, what am I supposed to do with grown engineering graduates that claim they took physics (and passed), yet they don't know what the right hand screw rule means or which way to turn fasteners?
But, what am I supposed to do with grown engineering graduates that claim they took physics (and passed), yet they don't know what the right hand screw rule means or which way to turn fasteners?
257ack
Silver $$ Contributor
not available for ppc and some others. If your reamer does not match T.S.
A 24 hour clock would blow their little minds !My grandkids don't know what this means. Or quarter to 10 (9:45)
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
Yes sir I have a set of lee dies for .223 I bought when I first started.... Setup by the instructions pushed it back .011.. They as you know do it so the brass will fit in any gun and it keeps the phone from ringing.... Super hard on brass especially in the AR platform....
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
Exactly
Solved it - it’s the die. It’s out of spec.
This was my 6BRA custom I had made by Whidden - the only thing different to the stock die was the neck diameter.
I tried another 2 dies I had lying around, a 6 Dasher cut down + the old 6BRA stock Whidden die with the stock neck.
In both instances I got great contact between the die and the shellholder. Put the other die back in, even turned 1 full turn post mating, still the same issue.
So somethings clearly up with this new die.
The bad news? Even with a 0.010” shellholder the other Whidden die is now bumping the shoulders back 7 thou. Can’t fault them for that though, Whidden state that their dies are deliberately shorter and they’ll size excessively with contact. I was hopeful that the 0.010” shellholder would give enough clearance but alas no.
Next question - does anyone make custom Shellholders with even more height?
Measured my shellholders as well just then.
0.126” / 0.129” / 0.131” / 0.132” / 0.134”
I think they’re supposed to be 0.125” - 0.133” with 2 thou increments?
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
You can turn down the die contact face
Ah unfortunately I’m trying to add height to reduce bump whilst maintaining contact with the shellholder. This may be a losing battle.
It does feel like I will need to size with the gap and a standard shellholder if I want to keep using Whidden dies.
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