Wilson micro seater die & arbor press

[paulT]

Hi I seat with wilson micrometer inline seater and k&m arbor press with force restoration pack and although my seating pressure is very consistant between 18 to 20ft pounds my loaded round runout is very dissapointing and varies between 2.5 thou all the way to 3 or 4 thousands
Verses 1 to 2 thousands when i seat with my 25 year old rockchucker press with a Redding comp seater
Could anyone who is seating .308 for ftr/ benchrest with The wilson micro seater and Arbor press share any info that helps reduce runout when seating also whats the prefered inside neck chamfer angle and tool that gives best results when using wilson and arbor press
Thanks.

 

[47WillysGuy]

Good question!

1) I've been searching for zero runout or close to it and come to the conclusion to buy 2-3 hundred new cases and sort. Then shoot the cases with best runout, then the next best , and finally the cases with worst runout and analyze the three results. See number 4 below.

2) Use a non-bushing full size die to set/size headspace and neck dimension. Haven't tried this , yet.

3) With a full size bushing die, neck size down in increments of 0.001 or 0.002.

4) Don't worry about runout if it's below 0.005"!

My $0.02!

 

[paulT]

Good question!

1) I've been searching for zero runout or close to it and come to the conclusion to buy 2-3 hundred new cases and sort. Then shoot the cases with best runout, then the next best , and finally the cases with worst runout and analyze the three results. See number 4 below.

2) Use a non-bushing full size die to set/size headspace and neck dimension. Haven't tried this , yet.

3) With a full size bushing die, neck size down in increments of 0.001 or 0.002.

4) Don't worry about runout if it's below 0.005"!

My $0.02!

Thanks for reply
I sort my new brass as you mention in your post before then neck turning and fireforming, Typical runout with fireformed brass before sizing is 0.0005 i then anneal and body size along with size necks with a Lee collet neck size die which increases case runnout to between 1 to 1.5 thousands
The bullet seating process with the wilson inline seater along with arbor press seems to be inducing the highest amount of runnout with loaded round so was looking for other wilson inline seater die owners who could share any tips that could help reduce runout when seating with this die and arbor press.

 

[JFrank]

Perhaps check a few without the annealing step.

 

[paulT]

Perhaps check a few without the annealing step.

I mostly Anneal my Brass and leave a couple of days before i size etc Runout of fireformed brass both before and after annealing show same runout.

 

[avidflyer]

Hi I seat with wilson micrometer inline seater and k&m arbor press with force restoration pack and although my seating pressure is very consistant between 18 to 20ft pounds my loaded round runout is very dissapointing and varies between 2.5 thou all the way to 3 or 4 thousands
Verses 1 to 2 thousands when i seat with my 25 year old rockchucker press with a Redding comp seater
Could anyone who is seating .308 for ftr/ benchrest with The wilson micro seater and Arbor press share any info that helps reduce runout when seating also whats the prefered inside neck chamfer angle and tool that gives best results when using wilson and arbor press
Thanks.

I’ll probably get flamed for this,...(wilson fan boys) I had the same issues years ago when those days first appeared on the market. It went back to Wilson twice....I sent my brass and the die for them to check everything out. Exact same issue. Wilson identify the problem on the second trip back and replaced the die. The second one was worse than the first almost 006 run out. I did solve the problem though. I bought a Newlon blank and made a seater with my reamer.... I really like the dies...this model had the click seater marketed by Sinclair.

 

[PopCharlie]

I went down the runout rabbit hole a few years ago. I was convinced it was the cause of my fliers. My best results (lowest runout measured on seated bullets at the ogive) were obtained by:
1. Start with good brass, like Lapua or Peterson.
2. Anneal after every firing.
3. Full length size with a Forster non bushing sizer with a polished ball sized .002 below caliber. It took more than one pass thru the die sometimes. I would rotate the case 90 ° each pass. Check runout on the case neck after each pass. I was able to get down to about .0005 on measured on the neck. This was my goal because, any more runout than that gave you no shot at seating a bullet straight. I also checked for variations in neck wall thickness. I would turn necks when I measured more than .001 variation.
4. Slight chamfer using K&M tool.
5. Seat using K&M arbor press, with standard force pack and Wilson micrometer seater.
I would see .001 or less runout on 80% of my seated bullets, .002 or under on all of my rounds.
Conclusion:
It made NO difference in the accuracy of my rounds. I did this for 3 different rifles. Got the same results.
I did not see any real improvement until I started really paying attention to powder charge weight, bullet seating depth and consistent neck tension.
I went back to using f/l bushing dies, added a Porter pin die. I still seat using the arbor press, force pack and Wilson dies. I don't even measure runout any more, except if I get a new die. I tried other brands of sizing dies and seaters. (Redding, Whidden) Forster made the straightest brass. Wilson seated bullets straightest.

PopCharlie

 

[paulT]

I went down the runout rabbit hole a few years ago. I was convinced it was the cause of my fliers. My best results (lowest runout measured on seated bullets at the ogive) were obtained by:
1. Start with good brass, like Lapua or Peterson.
2. Anneal after every firing.
3. Full length size with a Forster non bushing sizer with a polished ball sized .002 below caliber. It took more than one pass thru the die sometimes. I would rotate the case 90 ° each pass. Check runout on the case neck after each pass. I was able to get down to about .0005 on measured on the neck. This was my goal because, any more runout than that gave you no shot at seating a bullet straight. I also checked for variations in neck wall thickness. I would turn necks when I measured more than .001 variation.
4. Slight chamfer using K&M tool.
5. Seat using K&M arbor press, with standard force pack and Wilson micrometer seater.
I would see .001 or less runout on 80% of my seated bullets, .002 or under on all of my rounds.
Conclusion:
It made NO difference in the accuracy of my rounds. I did this for 3 different rifles. Got the same results.
I did not see any real improvement until I started really paying attention to powder charge weight, bullet seating depth and consistent neck tension.
I went back to using f/l bushing dies, added a Porter pin die. I still seat using the arbor press, force pack and Wilson dies. I don't even measure runout any more, except if I get a new die. I tried other brands of sizing dies and seaters. (Redding, Whidden) Forster made the straightest brass. Wilson seated bullets straightest.

PopCharlie

Thanks for Reply PopCharlie.

 

[mgunderson]

Have you tried partial seating and the rotating it in the dies by 180 degrees and finish seating! Is your brass round after sizing?

 

[PopCharlie]

Thanks for reply
I sort my new brass as you mention in your post before then neck turning and fireforming, Typical runout with fireformed brass before sizing is 0.0005 i then anneal and body size along with size necks with a Lee collet neck size die which increases case runnout to between 1 to 1.5 thousands
The bullet seating process with the wilson inline seater along with arbor press seems to be inducing the highest amount of runnout with loaded round so was looking for other wilson inline seater die owners who could share any tips that could help reduce runout when seating with this die and arbor press.

PaulT,
I forgot to mention in my earlier post, the Wilson seater works best (least bullet runout) if you use their standard stem for all bullets except VLDs. Use their VLD stem for them. Seating depth is more consistent too.
PopCharlie

 

[paulT]

Have you tried partial seating and the rotating it in the dies by 180 degrees and finish seating! Is your brass round after sizing?

I have tried rotating case during sizing doesnt seem to reduce runout.

 

[Rook 6]

Already previously alluded to, but I will re-emphasize…. To truly eliminate runout, I have found that buying your own reamer, having your gunsmith run you a die body from a piece of barrel blank when you rebarrel a rifle. Slap a Wilson micrometer seater top of it, have a FLS die (with or without bushing) made from fired cases from your chamber by your favorite die maker. Turn the necks on you cases, anneal after every firing. It’s expensive up front, but save SO much hassle going forward. I just keep my cases sorted by number of firings. I can use the same cases and dies for multiple rifles. Seating depth is always dead on and I’ve given up checking runout because it just isn’t there anymore. At least, not enough for even the most discriminating reloader to worry about. Even stock Wilson seater have to have some “slop” (relatively) in dimensions to accommodate all chambering. Using your own reamer allows you to eliminate that relative “slop”. Neck tension issues go away too for the most part. Not saying it’s the Holy Grail solution, but its the closest I’ve personally come to one.

 

[JFrank]

PaulT,
I forgot to mention in my earlier post, the Wilson seater works best (least bullet runout) if you use their standard stem for all bullets except VLDs. Use their VLD stem for them. Seating depth is more consistent too.
PopCharlie

It is worth a look to identify where the stem is making contact

 

[searcher]

It is worth a look to identify where the stem is making contact

This is where I'd first look as well. Sometimes the smallest burr can cause the biggest problems. Also check straightness of stem.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Its all in the dies and brass.

 

[philip brousseau]

I have found that with the bullet sitting on the case in the wilson seater that if I spin top piece of the die I believe it centers the bullet in the cone and reduces bullet runout.

 

[Retired Grunt]

Just a thought, do you have the correct seating stem

 

[paulT]

Already previously alluded to, but I will re-emphasize…. To truly eliminate runout, I have found that buying your own reamer, having your gunsmith run you a die body from a piece of barrel blank when you rebarrel a rifle. Slap a Wilson micrometer seater top of it, have a FLS die (with or without bushing) made from fired cases from your chamber by your favorite die maker. Turn the necks on you cases, anneal after every firing. It’s expensive up front, but save SO much hassle going forward. I just keep my cases sorted by number of firings. I can use the same cases and dies for multiple rifles. Seating depth is always dead on and I’ve given up checking runout because it just isn’t there anymore. At least, not enough for even the most discriminating reloader to worry about. Even stock Wilson seater have to have some “slop” (relatively) in dimensions to accommodate all chambering. Using your own reamer allows you to eliminate that relative “slop”. Neck tension issues go away too for the most part. Not saying it’s the Holy Grail solution, but its the closest I’ve personally come to one.

Thank you for info.

 

[paulT]

Just a thought, do you have the correct seating stem

Yes, Have the VLD seating stem for 20x and 185g hybrids.

 

[paulT]

I have found that with the bullet sitting on the case in the wilson seater that if I spin top piece of the die I believe it centers the bullet in the cone and reduces bullet runout.

Thanks for sharing info will give it a go.