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6.5 Creedmoor - Berger Bullet Selection

The only person I know that's having real luck with the 153.5's is Bruce, and he is killing it with them. I tried for 300 rounds and could not get rid of the random flyers. I put some 156s in the case, jumped them 30k and had 5 shots under 0.2 moa. That was in a LR Tactical rifle with a 7.5 twist.. Bruce is shooting a 7 twist but everything else is the same in our loads.

I chambered an f-class barrel (Brux 7.5 twist) and will try the 153.5s in that. I will quickly jump to the 156s though if they wont group.

If I find the missing secret I'll let you know. Hopefully you have better luck with them than I did.
Bruce is who I was talking about,LOL. Yes let me know how they work in your Brux, that's the same barrels I have for this project.
I have a bunch of 140 Hybrids and 144 Hybrids also. I know the 140s shoot for me in all my other rifles. Between the 3 one of them will shoot.
 
You guys are thinking about it all wrong. The 120 really doesn't over take the 140. When shooting distance the drop doesn't matter as much as the wind drift. As long as you know the distance you can dial, the wind is the only thing that's not a constant in this equation, its the only thing we can't control 100% and that's what hurts our end results. If you look at all the long Range comp disciplines be it F-Class, BR,PRS or even ELR its always the wind that separates the winners from the losers not the bullet drop. Bottom line in long range less wind drift Trumps less drop

140 Berger @ 2785FPS @ 600 yards requires 1mil (22.26") of wind on a 10mph wind.
120Lapua @3010FPS @ 600 yards Requires 1.21mil (26.22") of wind on a 10mph wind

In your above example you have the 120gr Lapua beating out the 140 by 0.4mils (7.36") in less drop. But the 120gr Lapua is giving up 4" in wind drift to the 140 gr Berger at 600yds.

At 1000yds the 120 Lapua is giving up 15.88" of wind and and is only gaining 8.88" in less drop to the 140 Berger.

@1000yards 10mph wind;
140Berger 70.15" of wind
120Lapua 86.03" of wind

@1000yards Drop
140Berger 307.00"
120Lapua. 298.12"

Bottom line at the end of the day it's the wind that wins or looses matches most of the time. Now is that to say its just the better bullet that wins it, no not necessarily, you have to also know how to read wind but in most comps the people who are the best wind readers are shooting bullets that shoot the best in the wind and are less concerned with the drop because they know the wind is the one constant in this sport we can't control and is always changing.
On another point you have to remember this is on paper, in real life situations it seems that heavier bullets do buck wind better that lighter weight bullets with the same B.C. or better to a point. That has been my experience and others I have talked to.

This isn't directed at you whatsupdoc, I'm just using your example since you posted numbers.

On a side note I have shot a bunch of 130gr Norma Gold Target out of my Creedmoor and they shot great out to 1000yds. Would I choose them over the 140 Berger hybrid...no not at 600yrds and not at 1000yrds. I got a good deal on them when I first built my Creedmoor. do I still shoot them.. yes I have bout 1000 left and use them for practice and ringing steel. Will they work for what your doing yes I'm sure they would I just wanted to point out that they really don't beat out 140 Bergers or any other 140 with a good BC...at least not where it really counts.
If I was paying for Berger 140 and Berger 130 I would spend my money on the 140's, If I was getting a different brand 130 that was a good bullet at a better price would I shoot them maybe, but if I was serious about the comp I was doing I would defiantly go with the 140 Berger even if it cost a bit more.

Just a side note the 130gr Norma's where the same BC 0.583 as the 140gr Hornandy HPBT. I was able to shoot them in the same rifle without having to change my dope or POA with my two given loads.


Yes at 1K the 140's do have better wind resistance but the OP stated his max range is 500 yards.
At 600 yards the 10mph wind hold would be .093 for the 140gr vs 1.06 for the 120gr.
At 500 yards the 10mph wind hold would be .76 for the 140gr vs .86 for the 120gr.

Up to 600 yards anything from 120 to 140 will do just fine.

Also with the current status of finding components especially Berger 140's, well you cant always
get what you want so you make due with what is available to you and out to 600 yards
you would not be handicapping yourself using any quality bullet in the 120 to 140 weight range.
 
I ran out of Berger 140 Hybrids and switched to 144 Hybrids. With 41.4 gr of H4350, 0.1 gr less than my 140 gr load. Due to a stupid mistake I made, they were jumping 0.032". They shot great in my rifle and I shot my highest 1,000 yard scores ever. I plan to try the same load with 0.025" to 0.015" to see if it gets even better.
 
A lot of great feedback here!
Whats your guys thoughts on Lapua 136 gr. "Scenar L's" since Bergers are hard to come accross.
I just started running VV N555 and getting; SD 4-6; ES 9-12 pushing Hornady 140 BTHP match.
Any advise?
 
A lot of great feedback here!
Whats your guys thoughts on Lapua 136 gr. "Scenar L's" since Bergers are hard to come accross.
I just started running VV N555 and getting; SD 4-6; ES 9-12 pushing Hornady 140 BTHP match.
Any advise?
Curious too, I have 1000 laying around. I got similar results to you with N555 with both 140 BTHPs and ELD-Ms on a 6.5 creedmoor. Going to try it next on my 6.5x47 when thats done being built. Its a great powder - does not like being compressed in my opinion - I was getting great SDs but with big ES and the ES dropped dramatically once i got to 99% case fill down from 104%.
 
You guys are thinking about it all wrong. The 120 really doesn't over take the 140. When shooting distance the drop doesn't matter as much as the wind drift. As long as you know the distance you can dial, the wind is the only thing that's not a constant in this equation, its the only thing we can't control 100% and that's what hurts our end results. If you look at all the long Range comp disciplines be it F-Class, BR,PRS or even ELR its always the wind that separates the winners from the losers not the bullet drop. Bottom line in long range less wind drift Trumps less drop

140 Berger @ 2785FPS @ 600 yards requires 1mil (22.26") of wind on a 10mph wind.
120Lapua @3010FPS @ 600 yards Requires 1.21mil (26.22") of wind on a 10mph wind

In your above example you have the 120gr Lapua beating out the 140 by 0.4mils (7.36") in less drop. But the 120gr Lapua is giving up 4" in wind drift to the 140 gr Berger at 600yds.

At 1000yds the 120 Lapua is giving up 15.88" of wind and and is only gaining 8.88" in less drop to the 140 Berger.

@1000yards 10mph wind;
140Berger 70.15" of wind
120Lapua 86.03" of wind

@1000yards Drop
140Berger 307.00"
120Lapua. 298.12"

Bottom line at the end of the day it's the wind that wins or looses matches most of the time. Now is that to say its just the better bullet that wins it, no not necessarily, you have to also know how to read wind but in most comps the people who are the best wind readers are shooting bullets that shoot the best in the wind and are less concerned with the drop because they know the wind is the one constant in this sport we can't control and is always changing.
On another point you have to remember this is on paper, in real life situations it seems that heavier bullets do buck wind better that lighter weight bullets with the same B.C. or better to a point. That has been my experience and others I have talked to
This isn't directed at you whatsupdoc, I'm just using your example since you posted numbers.

On a side note I have shot a bunch of 130gr Norma Gold Target out of my Creedmoor and they shot great out to 1000yds. Would I choose them over the 140 Berger hybrid...no not at 600yrds and not at 1000yrds. I got a good deal on them when I first built my Creedmoor. do I still shoot them.. yes I have bout 1000 left and use them for practice and ringing steel. Will they work for what your doing yes I'm sure they would I just wanted to point out that they really don't beat out 140 Bergers or any other 140 with a good BC...at least not where it really counts.
If I was paying for Berger 140 and Berger 130 I would spend my money on the 140's, If I was getting a different brand 130 that was a good bullet at a better price would I shoot them maybe, but if I was serious about the comp I was doing I would defiantly go with the 140 Berger even if it cost a bit more.

Just a side note the 130gr Norma's where the same BC 0.583 as the 140gr Hornandy HPBT. I was able to shoot them in the same rifle without having to change my dope or POA with my two given loads.

Based on the numbers you are completely correct. I chased improved BC but for me none shot as well as the 123 Scenar even at distances due to better accuracy and consistency. I experienced a similar situation with my 223 Ftr. You never know until you compare for yourself as some bullets just won't perform in your barrel.
 
A lot of great feedback here!
Whats your guys thoughts on Lapua 136 gr. "Scenar L's" since Bergers are hard to come accross.
I just started running VV N555 and getting; SD 4-6; ES 9-12 pushing Hornady 140 BTHP match.
Any advise?
I love the 136L'S great bullet.
I shoot them in my 6.5cm, and 6.5-284.
The 123 scenar is another great choice, I'm waiting to try the 120L's when they come available.
 
I love the 136L'S great bullet.
I shoot them in my 6.5cm, and 6.5-284.
The 123 scenar is another great choice, I'm waiting to try the 120L's when they come available.
Both shoot really well in my 260AI as well.
 
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I shoot the Berger 140 long range target #26406. RL16. Federal small primer brass. Pretty much any small primer works. My cbto is 2.138" and coal is near 2.870". Sammi chamber in a 26" PVA barrel makes it jump ~ .200" . This combo is stupid accurate and consistent in my PRS rifle.

Unfortunately RL16 is impossible to find(other than gunbroker) and I cannot find any more bullets. I'm down to about 3 pounds of powder and 600 bullets. I'm on a mission to try and make Staball and the 147eldm work together. I've got a bunch. My next 2 barrels WILL shoot this combo...... Or bust.
 
I would love to buy, some RL-16 powder and 140 grain Elite Hunters, BUT,..
IF, not,.. I'll "make" the 147 ELD-M's and Winchester's, StaBall,. "work" for my Deer, Antelope and LR steel, Load.
Read that, the RL-16 is,.."Pure Gold" in, the Creed !
I already KNOW that,.. Berger's ARE,.. THE Bullet !
I'm pretty sure that, the StaBall & ELD-M load, will work, fine tho
As,.. StaBall and the 108 gr. Elite Hunter Bergers, "BugHole" in the 3's, in my 6XC
 
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