What brand ammo is the Three 60 ideally chambered for? I'm thinking it's Center X but not sure.
Voodoo Three60 ammo
- Thread starter Skeptic123
- Start date
It's reportedly chambered for Lapua .22LR match ammo, Center X, Midas+, or X-Act -- they use the same bullet and are otherwise indistinguishable to the eye and in dimensions.
Of course, the fact that the chamber is "designed" for Lapua doesn't mean that it will shoot all Lapua equally. Some lots will be better or worse than others.
Of course, the fact that the chamber is "designed" for Lapua doesn't mean that it will shoot all Lapua equally. Some lots will be better or worse than others.
Heard back from Voodoo today and was told that the Three60 chambers unlike the V22's and others are using a Winchester 52D reamer. The 52D is a rifle but I didn't know it also was indicative of a specific chamber. Anyone know more on this?
In gunsamerica.com on July 11, 2021, Steve Gaspar writes "Per Vudoo, the Three 60 chamber is cut for Lapua ammunition." https://www.gunsamerica.com/digest/vudoo-three-60-22lr-review/
Not to comment one way or another on the veracity of either report, it would be interesting to know if in fact this model does have a chamber other than the Vudoo Ravage chamber and, more importantly, if it does why a change was made.
My rifle is the single shot version. I wonder if that has anything to do with the supposedly different chambering?
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garandman
Bolt Gun Bodacious
I think any of Lapua's match ammos *may* work fine in the Vudoo chamber. Eley Tenex and its match ammos definitely did not, for me anyway.
I think its a "speed" issue....gotta pick the speed your gun likes ... same as dialing in a powder charge on centerfire ammo we reload, to match bbl harmonics
As I understand it, look at the first 3 digits....e.g. below 27xxx - xxxxxx. Put a 3 in front to get 327 m/s velocity.
My gun above likes 26xxx. 326 m/s. 27x / 28x / 29x all don't shoot good in my gun. When you find a lot it likes, buy a crap ton of its,,, like 5,000 rounds or more.
Or send it to a Lapua test site, and they'll do all the work for ya.
I think its a "speed" issue....gotta pick the speed your gun likes ... same as dialing in a powder charge on centerfire ammo we reload, to match bbl harmonics
As I understand it, look at the first 3 digits....e.g. below 27xxx - xxxxxx. Put a 3 in front to get 327 m/s velocity.
My gun above likes 26xxx. 326 m/s. 27x / 28x / 29x all don't shoot good in my gun. When you find a lot it likes, buy a crap ton of its,,, like 5,000 rounds or more.
Or send it to a Lapua test site, and they'll do all the work for ya.
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The chamber was originally designed around the Lapua Center X but doesn;t mean it's all that will work or be accurate. I have had my Vudoo for over 4 years and have shot a lot of SK, Lapua, Eley, Wolf and Fed UM and all of it was accurate and fed. Below is 5 shots of Eley Tenex at 50 yards shot prone with a bipod and rear bag. I think it shoots pretty good. LOL Don't stress it and try different ammo. Find what the rifle likes.
To expand on the lot number and MV:
25xxx lots = 325 m/s or 1066.3 fps
26xxx lots = 326 m/s or 1069.6 fps
27xxx lots = 327 m/s or 1072.8 fps
28xxx lots = 328 m/s or 1076.1 fps
29xxx lots = 329 m/s or 1079.4 fps
30xxx lots = 330 m/s or 1082.7 fps
If it's a "speed" issue that makes the ammo shoot well in your rifle rather than other factors -- yours, for example, apparently shooting well with 26xxx lots -- will all lots with that nominal speed, that is a 26xxx lot number shoot equally well?
Do you find that all 26xxx lots will shoot at the same or very nearly the same average MV in your rifle?
I ask because when chronographing CX ammo, for example, I observed that there could be differences in average MV that varied by the box in the same lot of ammo in the same rifle. Furthermore, when comparing average MV's recorded with the chronograph with the MV derived from the Lapua lot number, sometimes slower lot numbers shot faster than lots with numbers that should have been faster. In other words, 30xxx lots could produce slower MV's than 28xxx lots. Additionally, not all 28xxx lots produced the same average MV's in the same rifle.
I also found that the same lots in two different barrels of the exact same length and diameter consistently produced different MV's, with one always faster than the other.
Given the potential for a MVs to vary by reasons other than lot numbers, I wonder if the Lapua testing facility finds a correlation between lot numbers and performance in a given rifle.
garandman
Bolt Gun Bodacious
@grauhanen ... I have not chrono'd muzzle velocity by lot for Midas +. I suppose there is a reason that Midas + cost more than center X.
That's why I recommended once you find a good shooting lot of Midas + to buy all of it you can find. That's not just an opinion of my own…. it's what's been recommended to me by some truly accomplished rimfire precision shooters.
I bought this lot number for my Vudoo repeater but use it also in my F class Vudoo Three 60 which has the tuner.
That's why I recommended once you find a good shooting lot of Midas + to buy all of it you can find. That's not just an opinion of my own…. it's what's been recommended to me by some truly accomplished rimfire precision shooters.
I bought this lot number for my Vudoo repeater but use it also in my F class Vudoo Three 60 which has the tuner.
I've chronographed M+ as well. M+ can also vary by the box in average MV's in the same rifle. In addition, in the lots of M+ I tested, the relationship between the lot-derived MV and the actual MV is not consistent. That is to say, while lots identified by lot number to be faster were indeed faster, they were not by a consistent amount and this could vary from box to box.
Keep in mind that CX, M+, and X-Act are all made on the same production line, using the same components, including bullets, casings, propellant, and priming compound. Except for the labelling on the box, they are indistinguishable from each other -- until shot in a rifle.
As should be known, there's no guarantee that the more expensive varieties will perform better.
Regarding selecting ammo by the "speed" identified on the box, I would hazard to say that few serious shooters use that as a guarantor of performance. What they see on paper is far more important.
The problem is that lot identified MV and actual average MV may vary. In addition, each box in a lot may vary by average MV. And since the ES in a good lot of any match ammo will be as high as 30 fps, in a box of ammo that can mean that the majority of rounds have an MV other than the average MV of the ammo. In short, not many rounds in a box of ammo will be very close to the average MV.
When the difference between lot identified "speeds" is only 3.3 fps -- one meter per second -- that's not much to hang a hat on. Eley used to publish the average MV for each lot on the box. This was the average obtained in their test barrels, and was to the nearest foot per second. They no longer include this MV information on boxes of ammo.
Keep in mind that CX, M+, and X-Act are all made on the same production line, using the same components, including bullets, casings, propellant, and priming compound. Except for the labelling on the box, they are indistinguishable from each other -- until shot in a rifle.
As should be known, there's no guarantee that the more expensive varieties will perform better.
Regarding selecting ammo by the "speed" identified on the box, I would hazard to say that few serious shooters use that as a guarantor of performance. What they see on paper is far more important.
The problem is that lot identified MV and actual average MV may vary. In addition, each box in a lot may vary by average MV. And since the ES in a good lot of any match ammo will be as high as 30 fps, in a box of ammo that can mean that the majority of rounds have an MV other than the average MV of the ammo. In short, not many rounds in a box of ammo will be very close to the average MV.
When the difference between lot identified "speeds" is only 3.3 fps -- one meter per second -- that's not much to hang a hat on. Eley used to publish the average MV for each lot on the box. This was the average obtained in their test barrels, and was to the nearest foot per second. They no longer include this MV information on boxes of ammo.
garandman
Bolt Gun Bodacious
@grauhanen ... so... what?? Dont ever shoot any 22rf at all, ever ? Whats your point ?
It is what it is. Enjoy your testing / numbers. I'm pretty happy with my targets / match scores. They are definitely competitive and frequently match winning against anything anyone else shoots... to include Anschutz Sakos Coopers etc and every other high end ammo out there. The very best center fire ammo in the world has at least as much SD/ES.
Maybe you could manufacture or point us to an ammo that is better in your opinion. Suggest a solution rather than just pointing out a problem... thats what the OP is requesting.
It is what it is. Enjoy your testing / numbers. I'm pretty happy with my targets / match scores. They are definitely competitive and frequently match winning against anything anyone else shoots... to include Anschutz Sakos Coopers etc and every other high end ammo out there. The very best center fire ammo in the world has at least as much SD/ES.
Maybe you could manufacture or point us to an ammo that is better in your opinion. Suggest a solution rather than just pointing out a problem... thats what the OP is requesting.
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It's all about finding what ammo the rifle likes when talking rimfire.... Box stock Ruger American Rimfire 16 inch barrel with CCI standered velocity and a p-rimfire scope 5 at 50 yards on a wonderful day.... You load federal in there and it will be an inch off and all over the place... I would like to try again with some ammo like Lapua or something good but it's impossible to find in this small town.... I think we all get drawn into having to have to best of the best when practice is so important... I am in no way bashing anything or anyone... I would love to have a Kidd or voodoo just not in the stars for me...
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You may be over-reacting.
The point is that selecting ammo for best accuracy by its average muzzle velocity may not be sound. That would be questionable advice for the OP.
The only thing that matters is the results produced by shooting on target by different makes and varieties and lots of ammo, not their lot number-derived average MV.
garandman
Bolt Gun Bodacious
OBVIOUSLY only the target matters.
Different MV ammo lots gives the OP categories of ammo to test. MV corresponds to bbl harmonics... which is what determines accuracy on target. OF COURSE stated MV by lot # will have SD / ES variances. All ammo does.
MVs effect on accuracy due to bbl harmonics is the technology behind barrel tuners. MV is the single largest *internal* ballistic determinant of accuracy on target. The OP *needs* to test ammo by lot, focusing on MV from an internal ballistic standpoint.
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You solved it. That’s it.
garandman
Bolt Gun Bodacious
Well… I wouldn't claim to have "solved" anything with regard to rimire…. it still largely a mystery.
But based on my own experience, those of of most all the guys I compete against at my local club and and countless Internet mavens of the mystery of rimfire.... muzzle velocity / bbl harmonics is going to be a major factor in terms of what shoots well. Muzzle velocity should not be discounted / ignored simply because every ammo has SD/ES. If we are looking for any ammo and especially rimfire ammo with 0 SD/ES, let's all sell our guns, quit shooting, and stay home.
By Vudoo's own acknowledgment, their chamber is designed for Lapua. And Lapua offers ammos with differing muzzle velocity. Those will have SD/ES as every ammo does. But MV still seems to be the best indicator of what's going to shoot well out out of different guns.
See disclaimer, below.
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