Going back to dry vibratory "tumbling"

[Fairchaser]

I tumble with steel pins, hot water, dawn and lemeshine. I might be the only one left. Yes, it peens the necks but I trim each time so it doesn’t bother me. I only tumble 20 minutes then place in a food dehydrator for 20 minutes. The primer pockets are clean. That’s important to me for primer seating consistency. The cases aren’t squeaky clean but just enough. I then anneal every time with a home made amp annealer for $200. It’s not perfect but does a fast and consistent job. Please tell me what’s wrong with my process.

 

[moondog]

Let me ask a couple of questions.

What advantages do you gain from cleaning your brass?

Is it possible that cleaning your brass could actually be detrimental to accuracy and consistency in reloading?

Bart

Exactly! I quit using the wet tumbling method for this reason. It just takes too much carbon out of the necks. I use a 50/50 mixture of UNTREATED walnut, and cob. Seems to leave the inside alone. I use to brush the crap out of my necks too. Now just a few trips in and out with a nylon brush. Seems to work for me, but I'm still learning.

 

[drop_point]

It definitely depends on your discipline. If you shoot PRS, you'll have muddy, dirty, and sometimes stepped-on brass that gets rammed into the dirt and mud. I'd much rather clean that than just steel wool it. Therefore I clean it every time to keep my process consistent. If you have the luxury of brass that never hits the ground, I suppose it shouldn't matter much and you can get by with just a steel wool wipe.

 

[INTJ]

It definitely depends on your discipline. If you shoot PRS, you'll have muddy, dirty, and sometimes stepped-on brass that gets rammed into the dirt and mud. I'd much rather clean that than just steel wool it. Therefore I clean it every time to keep my process consistent. If you have the luxury of brass that never hits the ground, I suppose it shouldn't matter much and you can get by with just a steel wool wipe.

It's not just "getting by." We are using the quickest process that allows us to shoot smaller 1000 yd groups than any other discipline. Steel wool the neck/shoulder, wipe off case lube with microfiber, nylon brush in the neck before seating.

 

[drop_point]

It's not just "getting by." We are using the quickest process that allows us to shoot smaller 1000 yd groups than any other discipline. Steel wool the neck/shoulder, wipe off case lube with microfiber, nylon brush in the neck before seating.

I'm saying "get by" as in you're not putting muddy stuff in your annealer, your dies, etc. You can get by with not cleaning as your chambers are super tight, you have to worry about a little amount of carbon, and brass that doesn't hit the deck. If I were to give you my spent brass after a rainy and nasty PRS match, you'd tumble it! This wasn't meant for you to get them in a wad or say your process isn't working.


ETA: I think I saw a video today from a dude that shot a 1.68" 1000 yard group. I believe he mentioned in previous videos that he wet-tumbles with steel pins every time.

 

[INTJ]

I'm saying "get by" as in you're not putting muddy stuff in your annealer, your dies, etc. You can get by with not cleaning as your chambers are super tight, you have to worry about a little amount of carbon, and brass that doesn't hit the deck. If I were to give you my spent brass after a rainy and nasty PRS match, you'd tumble it! This wasn't meant for you to get them in a wad or say your process isn't working.


ETA: I think I saw a video today from a dude that shot a 1.68" 1000 yard group. I believe he mentioned in previous videos that he wet-tumbles with steel pins every time.

LOL!!! I have no confidence issues in my process. And our chambers aren't tight, we do indeed worry about carbon, and our brass can indeed hit the deck. But very few shooters understand what it takes to shoot benchrest small groups at long range, and I think there is value in explaining that process for those who want to shoot better.

 

[BartsBullets]

I'm saying "get by" as in you're not putting muddy stuff in your annealer, your dies, etc. You can get by with not cleaning as your chambers are super tight, you have to worry about a little amount of carbon, and brass that doesn't hit the deck. If I were to give you my spent brass after a rainy and nasty PRS match, you'd tumble it! This wasn't meant for you to get them in a wad or say your process isn't working.


ETA: I think I saw a video today from a dude that shot a 1.68" 1000 yard group. I believe he mentioned in previous videos that he wet-tumbles with steel pins every time.

Tyler
Let’s not get into who shot what. INTJ is an accomplished shooter and I’ve done ok over the years.

You’re right depending on your disciple wet tumbling could be helpful. However in the accuracy department it’s NOT a requirement.

Here’s a pic of my brass from the 600 yard IBS Nationals.

Bart

 

[drop_point]

Tyler
Let’s not get into who shot what. INTJ is an accomplished shooter and I’ve done ok over the years.

You’re right depending on your disciple wet tumbling could be helpful. However in the accuracy department it’s NOT a requirement.

Here’s a pic of my brass from the 600 yard IBS Nationals.

Bart

Yes, and I didn't mean to imply anybody was not an accomplished shooter, just as you said, it is advantageous for some disciplines, and not necessarily harmful to accuracy.

As always, more than one way to skin a cat!

 

[Retired Grunt]

Grunt,

Yes, because I don’t want to remove the carbon inside the neck. The carbon Acts as a lubricate when seating Bullets and keeps seating pressures consistent. This is one of the keys to attaining a high degree of accuracy in short and long range shooting.

Just clean the outside of the neck with steel wool and brush the inside case neck with a bore brush.

Most of the guys that I know that clean their cases end up applying some sort of lubricant to the inside of their necks in order to have consistent seating pressures. It’s just unnecessary steps and kind of chasing your tail.

Barts

Thanks, I see what you are saying now. I don't go out of my way to clean the inside of the case mouth or lube them either. There is a thread about this somewhere from last month.

 

[Ccrider]

Tyler
Let’s not get into who shot what. INTJ is an accomplished shooter and I’ve done ok over the years.

You’re right depending on your disciple wet tumbling could be helpful. However in the accuracy department it’s NOT a requirement.

Here’s a pic of my brass from the 600 yard IBS Nationals.

Bart

@BartsBullets, don’t remember seeing it posted elsewhere. Do you anneal and if so, how often.

 

[BartsBullets]

@BartsBullets, don’t remember seeing it posted elsewhere. Do you anneal and if so, how often.

Before every match.

Bart

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I originally cleaned my brass in a tumbler with corn cob and some polish. It did not remove the carbon in the necks, at least the way I did it. I tried the ss pins when that first came out. Peened up all my nicely turned necks and you could feel the bullet push through the mouth as the peening also work hardens that area. I went back to tumbling. I guess I stopped tumbling 10 years ago? Just wiped off the necks. Then at some point I stopped doing that. Now I dont do anything other than burnish the carbon in the id of the neck. I dont feel like the light tumble in corn cob hurt me but it did not help me and if I can eliminate a step I will. I dont anneal any more but I did anneal for some stuff when I was still cleaning brass and I have the same opinion whether annealing or not. I have shot some stuff that really impressed me on brand new brass. I would not ss pin tumble again but ultrasonic to remove the carbon and prepping the necks as they were new is something I plan to try to see if I can duplicate some of what I have seen on new brass. But currently I am a fan or burnished carbon in the necks.

 

[JayHHI6818]

I have tumbled my brass for 40 years with corncob media treated with Flitz media additive. Brass comes out nice and shinny.
Two years ago I purchased a used Atlas rifle chambered in 6 BR and I don’t tumble the 6BR brass for it. Trust me I wanted to out of old habit! Wipe the neck down and resize it. Few years ago I purchased a used Bench Source from AS classifieds and I was hesitant to anneal every time. Last week I watched this YouTube video of Eric Cortina interviewing Lou Murdia. They talked about annealing and lubing case necks with Molly for preloaded ammo.
link

 

[JFrank]

Tyler
Let’s not get into who shot what. INTJ is an accomplished shooter and I’ve done ok over the years.

You’re right depending on your disciple wet tumbling could be helpful. However in the accuracy department it’s NOT a requirement.

Here’s a pic of my brass from the 600 yard IBS Nationals.

Bart

Those look pretty good Bart'

 

[garandman]

A very rough count, to date:

Don't tumble, wipe only - 7

Dry Tumble in some media - 12

Conclusion: Try everything. Find what works for me.

 

[divingin]

I tumble for one hour in crushed walnut. It does not affect
the carbon in the necks. I avoid using corn cob anymore.
Best place for walnut is your pet supply shops. It's used for
pet lizards. It's also a bit cheaper then buying at a gun shop.

Another option is to look for grit blasting supplies. Both walnut hull and corn cob are used as grit blasting media. Walnut (not sure about corn cob) is sieve screened for size, and can be ordered in whatever particle size you want. Usually comes in pretty large quantities though.

X-47: Vibe tumbling doesn't do a lot to the insides of the cases, so, while it may remove some of the neck carbon, it doesn't get all of it. Also doesn't do much (if anything) to the flash hole residue. Wet tumbling with pins will get the case interior and flash holes spotless if you get the technique down.

A buddy of mine uses a BenchSource annealer, and swears his groups open up for the first firing after annealing, then they tighten up for the next couple/few firings. I've tried annealing every cycle, up to every 5 firing cycles, and haven't seen a noticeable difference on the target paper. I now try to hit every 3 or 4 firings (depending on my free time.) Then again, I'm only shooting against what I've done before; YMMV.

Garandman: Add me to the steel wool only/anneal whenever (every few firings, not every time) camp. For precision rifle brass anyway. My pistol brass gets cleaned (wet tumbled) every firing (unless I'm presses for time.) My pistols tend to pickier than my bolt guns.

 

[1911nut]

A very rough count, to date:

Don't tumble, wipe only - 7

Dry Tumble in some media - 12

Conclusion: Try everything. Find what works for me.

I’d go with what the guy said that shot this-

 

[Retired Grunt]

A very rough count, to date:

Don't tumble, wipe only - 7

Dry Tumble in some media - 12

Conclusion: Try everything. Find what works for me.

This was a good conversation learning thread, thanks for starting it

 

[Fuj]

A very rough count, to date:

Don't tumble, wipe only - 7

Dry Tumble in some media - 12

Conclusion: Try everything. Find what works for me.

I already posted about my dry tumbling in crushed walnut but
let me add about when I do it. Upon firing, and extracting, I
wipe the soot off the case necks and in the box they go. When
that lot has been shot I lube and size them. As they come out
of the sizer, I hand wipe off any excess lube and drop them into
my tumbler and tumble for only one hour. The purpose of doing
this is to remove residual lube so it dont end up in my chamber.
And as I mentioned previously, it does not disturb the carbon in
the necks. If anything, it may polish the carbon layer helping in
the tension / release area.

 

[Webster]

Based on overwhelming response in my prior post re: how BR shooters clean brass, I'm going back to dry tumbling with organic media. (Wet with steel pins got me to 0.2 - .04" @ 100y in 2 different calibers)

Question is.... corn cob or walnut and what if any polish / treatment?

Thanx.

0.2 to 0.4" won't get you anywhere in competition.