I think of it in just the opposite way. I can't know how poor I'm shooting if my ammo isn't giving me the best it can (and allowing, to some extent, for not so great performance from a factory gun/barrel). 
Measure Four times - Load once? More newbie questions - RCBS Pocket Scale Sucks?
- Thread starter AuthenticShooter
- Start date
I think of it in just the opposite way. I can't know how poor I'm shooting if my ammo isn't giving me the best it can (and allowing, to some extent, for not so great performance from a factory gun/barrel). danny
Silver $$ Contributor
I suggest you do not rely on trickling into the pan whilst on that type of scale without an additional step. The scale is probably not responding well to trickling being a strain gage scale. Unfortunately it will likely be a slower process for you in order to de-risk the powder weight variances.
Stop trickling just short of the required load, tap the weighting platform very lightly with a cut straw or tweezers (useful for adding single kernels). The displayed weight may be different and should be more accurate because the scale is then weighing a static load (I stress should be with that level of scale). You can then trickle up to the desired load but again, tap the platform and check the charge weight before you dump the charge into the case.
Appreciating you are starting out and on a budget, you could also try a Lee powder dipper instead of the trickler to get you close to the required weight, then use the trickler just to add the last few kernels - and tap the platform.
Lee sell several dippers as a package and you should find one that allows you to dump an amount of powder pretty close to the required weight.
Years ago I had to do this with my Gempro for the same reason - strain gage scales generally do not respond well to trickling, you need typically a magnetic force restoration scale such as the A&D 120 to be able to rely on trickling.
Or go to a balance beam scale.
danny
Silver $$ Contributor
Not really the same thing, but sort of; I make Pizza often, sort of as a hobby. I had to go away from using cups and teaspoons, etc. (volume) and go to weight. I had to buy some scales. I don't right now know if they are load cell or strain gage type. In any case, when adding up ingredients, ie like trickling powder, I learned that it will not register/sense the increase reliably, so I have to remove the weighed item from the scale, then add (trickle), then place back on the scale. In addition, on this scale, when weighing about 300 grams, the zero will drift about +- 1 gram. Obviously, most or all reloading scales would be a bit better, but still. the issue is there to some degree. It is for this reason, and the experiences seen on this forum, that I will never get a digital scale for reloading, unless I want to weigh cases or bullets.
Danny
I agree with @1bamashooter.
If you are serious about fast and repeatable accuracy to the kernel, then get an Autothrow/Autotrickler on and A&D FX-120i. If you are not concerned about speed, then get just the A&D FX-120i and manually trickle.
If you need a more budget friendly solution then get a Scott Parker tuned scale. If you don't have time to wait for Scott, then get a balance beam scale. If my A&D were ever to go out, and if my Sartorius were to go out, I use my old RCBS 10-10.
I absolutely wouldn't use my Chargemaster or any other low end electronic scale. My Chargemaster got put away several years ago when I got my Autothrow/Autotrickler set up and I have never looked back.
If you are serious about fast and repeatable accuracy to the kernel, then get an Autothrow/Autotrickler on and A&D FX-120i. If you are not concerned about speed, then get just the A&D FX-120i and manually trickle.
If you need a more budget friendly solution then get a Scott Parker tuned scale. If you don't have time to wait for Scott, then get a balance beam scale. If my A&D were ever to go out, and if my Sartorius were to go out, I use my old RCBS 10-10.
I absolutely wouldn't use my Chargemaster or any other low end electronic scale. My Chargemaster got put away several years ago when I got my Autothrow/Autotrickler set up and I have never looked back.
joshb
Gold $$ Contributor
I paid dearly for that privilege. Five or six years ago, I fell off a roof and shattered both heals in my feet. I spent 9 months in a wheel chair. My wife had mercy on me and let me set up in my little office. Luckily, I’ve gotten better and managed to hold the ground I gained!
You can take this for what it cost (0). When I first saw digital scales I thought "I 'gotta have one" well it worked for about a month and then started giving "funny" readings. A call to the manufactuer and they said send it back to us its under warrenty. They " fixed" it and returned it and it worked ~maybe 30min. Get yourself a good balence beam.
bozo699
Gold $$ Contributor
This is almost word for word what I would have wrote and do other than I didn’t put my chargemaster away I use it to throw light and trickle on my GD503 but if that Sartorius ever goes out I’ll replace it with your setup up J.
Authenticshooter,
If your serious about shooting and loading precision rounds INTJ’s post is the one to follow. Good luck sir
Wayne
Wow, incredible story - glad you are on the mend. When things like that happen to me I think...could have been much worse - I fell off a high ladder putting up a camera outdoors and only had my pride hurt. One more half turn of the body or a foot more left and it would not have ended well. That you wife let you stay speaks volumes...she's a keeper!I paid dearly for that privilege. Five or six years ago, I fell off a roof and shattered both heals in my feet. I spent 9 months in a wheel chair. My wife had mercy on me and let me set up in my little office. Luckily, I’ve gotten better and managed to hold the ground I gained!
I am better than average golfer...my experience with that process has morphed into my loading experience. My 1st "set" of clubs my brother gave me - a "1/2 set" of ping knock offs 3-5-7-9-PW -SW. I asked him why just every other - his reply was you aren't good enough that a full set even matters - hell you'll hit your 7 iron farther than your 3 probably. Once you get better and decide you like the game, I will give the club maker's number and you can complete your set. He set me a target of breaking 100 legit. So that's what I did. Then he said once you shoot bogey golf reward yourself with some new clubs. So that's what I did, and at that point I could actually tell a difference. Then, when I became a single digit handicap I got some REALLY good clubs, and again, they made a difference. Right now I consider myself a "100 shooter" - if my shooting were my golf game.
But hey, I have a chrono, I know what the off the shelf ammo FPS, SD, and ES are and the size of the groups. I will see If I can improve on that this first go round and if not start drilling down on the things I can change, one at a time before plunking down any more cash ( except for components of course
).I know one thing for sure, you people here, and this site in general have been a huge help in shortening the learning curve and saving money. So much knowledge, helpfulness, and camaraderie it's wonderful. So glad i found accurate shooter.
Should shoot the ladder this week and will report back for sure.
I am better than average golfer...my experience with that process has morphed into my loading experience. My 1st "set" of clubs my brother gave me - a "1/2 set" of ping knock offs 3-5-7-9-PW -SW. I asked him why just every other - his reply was you aren't good enough that a full set even matters - hell you'll hit your 7 iron farther than your 3 probably. Once you get better and decide you like the game, I will give the club maker's number and you can complete your set. He set me a target of breaking 100 legit. So that's what I did. Then he said once you shoot bogey golf reward yourself with some new clubs. So that's what I did, and at that point I could actually tell a difference. Then, when I became a single digit handicap I got some REALLY good clubs, and again, they made a difference. Right now I consider myself a "100 shooter" - if my shooting were my golf game.
But hey, I have a chrono, I know what the off the shelf ammo FPS, SD, and ES are and the size of the groups. I will see If I can improve on that this first go round and if not start drilling down on the things I can change, one at a time before plunking down any more cash ( except for components of course
I know one thing for sure, you people here, and this site in general have been a huge help in shortening the learning curve and saving money. So much knowledge, helpfulness, and camaraderie it's wonderful. So glad i found accurate shooter.
Should shoot the ladder this week and will report back for sure.
I think the difference with shooting is even a great shooter can't shoot bad ammo well in terms of developing loads and shooting off stable rests.
Regardless, the key to success in shooting, like with most things, is to use a systematic, consistent, and thoughtful approach.
bozo699
Gold $$ Contributor
First off I’ve made a couple comments without even saying welcome to the forum !…. This forum has been very good to me as well, at one time I probably belonged to probably 15 or 20 different Gun related forums and now I doubt I could even remember how to log onto them.I am better than average golfer...my experience with that process has morphed into my loading experience. My 1st "set" of clubs my brother gave me - a "1/2 set" of ping knock offs 3-5-7-9-PW -SW. I asked him why just every other - his reply was you aren't good enough that a full set even matters - hell you'll hit your 7 iron farther than your 3 probably. Once you get better and decide you like the game, I will give the club maker's number and you can complete your set. He set me a target of breaking 100 legit. So that's what I did. Then he said once you shoot bogey golf reward yourself with some new clubs. So that's what I did, and at that point I could actually tell a difference. Then, when I became a single digit handicap I got some REALLY good clubs, and again, they made a difference. Right now I consider myself a "100 shooter" - if my shooting were my golf game.
But hey, I have a chrono, I know what the off the shelf ammo FPS, SD, and ES are and the size of the groups. I will see If I can improve on that this first go round and if not start drilling down on the things I can change, one at a time before plunking down any more cash ( except for components of course
I know one thing for sure, you people here, and this site in general have been a huge help in shortening the learning curve and saving money. So much knowledge, helpfulness, and camaraderie it's wonderful. So glad i found accurate shooter.
Should shoot the ladder this week and will report back for sure.
I am better than average golfer...my experience with that process has morphed into my loading experience. My 1st "set" of clubs my brother gave me - a "1/2 set" of ping knock offs 3-5-7-9-PW -SW. I asked him why just every other - his reply was you aren't good enough that a full set even matters - hell you'll hit your 7 iron farther than your 3 probably. Once you get better and decide you like the game, I will give the club maker's number and you can complete your set. He set me a target of breaking 100 legit. So that's what I did. Then he said once you shoot bogey golf reward yourself with some new clubs. So that's what I did, and at that point I could actually tell a difference. Then, when I became a single digit handicap I got some REALLY good clubs, and again, they made a difference. Right now I consider myself a "100 shooter" - if my shooting were my golf game.
But hey, I have a chrono, I know what the off the shelf ammo FPS, SD, and ES are and the size of the groups. I will see If I can improve on that this first go round and if not start drilling down on the things I can change, one at a time before plunking down any more cash ( except for components of course
I know one thing for sure, you people here, and this site in general have been a huge help in shortening the learning curve and saving money. So much knowledge, helpfulness, and camaraderie it's wonderful. So glad i found accurate shooter.
Should shoot the ladder this week and will report back for sure.
Im no golfer I don’t even like the game but your post was well put and I couldn’t agree more with you analogy!…. Only wished I would have had someone give me that advice 25 years ago because I’ve bought every new fangled gadget that ever came out up until just a few years ago and it was mostly a waste of money. For the most part you do get what you pay for but if you buy a good scale and dies that will size your cases correctly all the rest of the bells and whistles can come as you go. Before you buy the newest gadget do some research on this forum chances are it’s been discussed and if not there’s a whole bunch of top notch fellas and gals that will help you out.
best of luck to you from going from “100” to Bogey in this wonderful sport my friend.
looking forward to seeing many more posts from you.
Wayne
LOL...golfers ( this one too) do the same thing. We think the latest training gadget, swing tip, or gizmo will make us better. Eventually we come to understand it takes many reps of correct technique to hit the ball better. Same with shooting, and all illustrations break down for sure. But, I mean if I dropped another $600 on an CPS primer seater, $800 on one of these scales, and for giggles and grins toss in $675 on a barrel, and $250 for a trigger....would I shoot better groups? I would hope so.
But I ain't even outa the gate with my first ladder. That two grand can buy a lot of practice rounds.
bozo699
Gold $$ Contributor
The Scales you do need!….. you can buy a quality beam scale for much less that will be repeatable a barrel for half that, the next cps sold belongs to me lol. Your gonna go far in this sport if your pockets are deep enough for the rabbit hole and you patient enough
Wayne
Wayne
Welcome to the forum.
If you are going to focus on accuracy, don't spend too much time or money on getting the AR to shoot better than MOA. If the 6.5 CM is a quality rifle spend them there. It's like figuring out that half the strokes in golf are made with the putter, so get one that can be consistent. You'll need to get a good front rest and a good bag for the rear or you'll never get the repeatability to know if it is the gun or the ammo. And then your technique in shooting has to be even more finely tuned than any of your golf swing. If you can find a mentor to work on your routine, so much the better.
Enjoy! It is every bit as addictive as golf, but at least you won't be taking practice swings while waiting for the elevator.
If you are going to focus on accuracy, don't spend too much time or money on getting the AR to shoot better than MOA. If the 6.5 CM is a quality rifle spend them there. It's like figuring out that half the strokes in golf are made with the putter, so get one that can be consistent. You'll need to get a good front rest and a good bag for the rear or you'll never get the repeatability to know if it is the gun or the ammo. And then your technique in shooting has to be even more finely tuned than any of your golf swing. If you can find a mentor to work on your routine, so much the better.
Enjoy! It is every bit as addictive as golf, but at least you won't be taking practice swings while waiting for the elevator.
It's late and I am a little punch drunk, but I laughed for 30 secs at your post. The mindset we agree on....I'm thinking this sport a "little " more expensive than golf if you wanna become a single digit handicap. Right now my goal is to just produce reliable rounds at reduced cost versus buying as I learn and be able to take down game and self defense if needed.
Last edited:
bozo699
Gold $$ Contributor
If your trying to reload to save cost stop right now cause that ain’t gonna happen!….If your doing it to learn how to tune a load to your rifle then go ahead on.
Wayne
Upgrades & Donations
This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.