jelenko
Gold $$ Contributor
Hmm. You didn't mention accuracy - is that an objective?
.223 69gr smk
- Thread starter fscrook
- Start date
I've shot a few 3 shot 1" groups at 300y on different days. But the 10 shot groups have a flyer or two and become 3" groups at 300y. If a powder would produce less flyers i'd try and get some
Forget the SD's and ES's, your velocity is waaaaaay slow. Load that up to about 3000 fps, and if your chosen powder won't allow that, then switch to a faster powder, Varget, AR Comp, CFE223, H335 etc.
FWIW, I just bought 500 of the 223 cal 69 grain bullets from RMR at a cost of 16.6 cents each delivered. They look like the kissing cousin of the SMK, but measure slightly different. Can't wait to try them!
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Try a mag primer. When you run out.
Increase neck tension/bullet hold? Let the bushing size only 1/2 of the neck.
Just things to play with.
jelenko
Gold $$ Contributor
Why?
You mention consistency during ignition/peak pressure, exit times/nodes - why? I.e., if performance on target [i.e., even with a 1 MOA group] is not a concern, why are you concerned about these parameters? Please understand you can do anything you want/are interested in. The reason for the questions is so we can better help you achieve what you want to do.
You say you are using a pressure trace - if so, what pressures are you seeing?
Western's reloading manual shows 22.5 gr of AA2495 with 69 SMK's at 54K psi. Another two grains, I think, would be well into the 60K's.
I can't , excess pressure signs on the case head at 25.2g and the ptII reads 10% hotter then the factory loads i tested. Bad velocity ya, it's a 16" bbl.Forget the SD's and ES's, your velocity is waaaaaay slow. Load that up to about 3000 fps, and if your chosen powder won't allow that, then switch to a faster powder, Varget, AR Comp, CFE223, H335 etc.
FWIW, I just bought 500 of the 223 cal 69 grain bullets from RMR at a cost of 16.6 cents each delivered. They look like the kissing cousin of the SMK, but measure slightly different. Can't wait to try them!
Bullet Reloading Supplies | Rocky Mountain Reloading
RMR Bullets Welcometo the family Shop Now Pistol Bullets Rifle Bullets Rifle Cases Apparel In Stock Now All Categories Categories Bullets for Reloading Cases for Reloading RMR in house Bullet Casting Supplies We care about quality https://youtu.be/RXZvg45M28c Popular Choice Bullets 9mm (.355")...
Thank you very much for your reply. In my experience with the ptii testing other guns, if those parameters were met the accuracy on paper usually reflected that as well. If the ptii said it was a good load it would shoot good groups and have low es/sd and if the ptii said it was bad, it usually showed up. I've never experinced the opposite where paper tests and chrono said it was good but ptii said it was bad. So i tend to trust the machine, especially now because it's hard to get components.
Tbh i've always had a problem getting the machine to read the posted pressures for ammunition regarding 223. It, for whatever reason, has never given me anything close to 55k, and i've tested different barrels, gages, barrel settings, and ammunition including actual m855, which wasnt easy to get. It never seems to go over 45k even if the case heads are showing signs of excessive pressure. And i have only had this problem with 223 , not any other cartridge, and it does bother me. Oh well.
For this powder 25.3 grains was the hottest load i tested and it was roughly 10% hotter then the black hills that i ran it side by side ( the aa load 45k , avg mv 2670) , the 24.5-24.8 was around 40k same as the black hills , and the 23g loads were 10% less.
After all the advice i will look for a new powder. Thank you all very much. Im not sure i would have.
RegionRat
Gold $$ Contributor
Reading stress/strain that shows 45ksi but seeing premature pressure signs on the brass can sometimes mean the chamber and barrel are to blame. Other times it really is the reload.
Do you get good readings on the gage with factory ammo along with good performance? That would point less toward the rifle and gage and more toward your reloads.
Do you get good readings on the gage with factory ammo along with good performance? That would point less toward the rifle and gage and more toward your reloads.
joshb
Gold $$ Contributor
Ok! Now I learned something! Thank you for that!
Personally......I don’t trust it. I don’t trust a lot of electronic gizmos! I look at my load, my books, my brass and my targets. I’ll leave the new gizmos to you younger guys.
“It never seems to go over 45k even if the case heads are showing signs of excessive pressure.”
Maybe your gizmo is broke?
Thank you for your reply. It does that with other barrels/bolts too so idk. The factory ammo does not give the reference pressures and i havn't been able to do that with 223 rem. Havn't had that problem with other cartridges. Idk maybe because the only 223s i have are ar15s, maybe a bolt action 223 would give the right pressure readings. And yes im using it as a comparative tool to gage my loads.
Lol ya i was 25 when i bought it 10 years ago. It only gives odd pressure readings on the 223/ar15. Not with other guns/cartridges. But ya maybe, maybe i just keep setting it up wrong.
RegionRat
Gold $$ Contributor
@jelenko agree, the M855 does close to 3000 and M193 does close to the same, but just a difference in the brand or not trying to hit a specification can mean a big difference in those speeds.
I have seen some Independence M193 go 3150 in 16” and I have also seen 62 grain Federal Fusion “ICE rounds” ammo go only 2650. It makes it difficult to know if the OP’s ammo or gun are “normal”.
Again, as long as his brass goes at least 4 cycles and his performance is decent, I would consider the outcome within “normal” for a 16”.
@fscrook , the strain gages should read just fine on an AR platform or any other one for that matter, provided they are mounted well. Make sure you are using the correct material properties for the alloy of your bbl and have the correct dimensions and that’s the best you can do. The differences between an AR and a bolt gun don’t show up till you are in the tails of the trace.
I have seen some Independence M193 go 3150 in 16” and I have also seen 62 grain Federal Fusion “ICE rounds” ammo go only 2650. It makes it difficult to know if the OP’s ammo or gun are “normal”.
Again, as long as his brass goes at least 4 cycles and his performance is decent, I would consider the outcome within “normal” for a 16”.
@fscrook , the strain gages should read just fine on an AR platform or any other one for that matter, provided they are mounted well. Make sure you are using the correct material properties for the alloy of your bbl and have the correct dimensions and that’s the best you can do. The differences between an AR and a bolt gun don’t show up till you are in the tails of the trace.
I believe that i have the most compelling reason of all of you all for choosing the powder I chose. I started using win 748 many years ago as i bought a rifle and the load was given to me by the previous owner and it shoot really good. Then a few years back a guy i work with had his grand father die and he needed to find a home for about 15 lbs of WIN 748. So with free powder, what else could i do but carry on an established tradition????
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