.223 looking smarter in 2021 and beyond?

[davidjoe]

There was a time when I’d gladly drop 88 grains of H1000 into a .338 LM case, the same powder that by a smidge works the best for me in a SAUM.

I’m now considering unloading rounds just to recover H1000 for Indiana this July. I never realized so much H1000 got loaded into all the popular handgun and hunting rounds the record new shooters bought up . That scrounging is not like eating leftovers from the refrigerator, but from a hole ripped in warm, week-old Hefty bag.

Yeah, I’m venting, but brass makers apparently think the RSAUM cartridge is no win proposition, since way before Covid. It’s almost never available despite always being expensive. Norma discontinued it.

Lapua and several others that make regular long action magnums - I think - by passing are basically indicating a belief that the short magnum design and soft “brass” case heads are maybe incompatibly “too efficient” at powder combustion? (Like an old cartoon’s black “TNT” sphere that goes kaboom, with unacceptable short life in their estimation?)

They (Lapua) make a .222 Remington for 37 people and the world’s finest 7.62x39, kind of overkill for that cartridge (AK-47 original) if you ask me, but not a single short magnum in 7 or 30, potentially the highest point netting F-Class open option in the most popular precision discipline.



But maybe the easy-keeping .223 is a bright spot in all this shortage.

Only 25.0 grains of Varget gives moly Berger 90’s all the push that CCI 41 small rifle primers can happily endure. That’s a huge powder savings, considering that rifle powder I saw today was already $50 a pound for new VV, on the way to double old prices, and that retailer does not overcharge.

Powder is on the way to exceeding the cost of the bullet, and by its weight is already multiples higher than match bullets and brass.

I’ve never found .223 brass hard to locate. Good barrel life. But, I have never shot one at 1,000 in a match. I’m wondering if new generation bullets can contend at 1,000, or if they are hopelessly outgunned.

I shot mine at 200 yards where I could see holes easily between mirage and 11 mph wind cycles. I like how predictably the impact traces holds, even if it moves in the wind more than say a 7 magnum.

 

[XTR]

I love my 223 at mid range. It has won a lotto hardware, that said... based on my observations you are hopelessly outgunned at 1000.

On paper the 90 VLD at 2800ish is the ballistic equivalent of the 185Jugg in the mid to upper 2700 node; however, Ive never met a 223 shooter who could tune the vertical out at that range.

my personal opinion is that the small combustion chamber is just too sensitive to minor variations in burn rate, or primer, or neck tension, or seating depth, or any other reloading variance to get consistent muzzle velocity with the very low extreme spreads you need to shoot competitively[\u] on an F class target at long range.

Now out to 600 yds

 

[Ned Ludd]

In my hands, velocity ES values with .223 Rem rounds loaded with 90 VLDs run in the neighborhood of 20-25 fps on average, whereas a similar .308 Win F-TR load with 200.20Xs will usually end up in the 10-15 fps range. If you run the numbers via JBM Ballistics, a .223 Rem with pointed 90 VLDs at 2830 fps and 2855 fps is predicted to have 6.0" elevation variance at 1000 yd (solely due to the 25 fps velocity differential), and predicted windage of 6.5 - 6.4 MOA. A .308 Win with pointed 200.20Xs at 2640 fps and 2655 fps is predicted to have 4.1" elevation variance at 1000 yd (solely due to the 15 fps velocity differential), and predicted windage of 5.9 MOA.

Certainly the extra 2.1" predicted vertical with the .223 Rem could cause you to lose a few more points "out the corners", but that difference should be small enough to be within the range of possibility for the shooter control it with better attention to reading the conditions, just like a .308 Win shooter using 185s instead of 200s. The extra 0.5+ MOA windage predicted for the .223 Rem is is potentially even more problematic that the increased vertical, IMO. Again, F-TR shooters have certainly done well in matches using 185s at 1000 yd, which in my hands have comparable windage performance to the 90 VLDs. However, the combination of the both increased windage and vertical make it very tough for a .223 shooter to keep up with the heavier .308 loads commonly being used. It's easy to think that when using a lighter bullet with slightly lesser BC, one merely has to do a better job reading the conditions, but in practice, it doesn't happen so often. I suspect that's largely because the shooters at the top of the leaderboard are ALL good. They make few if any mistakes, which is a big part of why they are generally at the top of the scoring list. Even a slight ballistic disadvantage becomes a big deal against top shooters that don't usually make any big mistakes.

I [barely] won the 2015 CA State LR (1000 yd) F-TR match using a .223 with 90 VLDs, and that was with a crossfire on day 1. IMO - the real keys to that outcome were that the wind conditions were generally extremely mild (0-5 mph), a number of the F-TR .308 shooters at that time were using 185s rather than 200s, and several of the top shooters had just returned from a week shooting at a big match (I don't remember which one), so they were probably a bit beat up. In addition, my .223 load was shooting outstandingly well. But in fairness, you rarely hear of such a result with a .223 at 1000 yd. I certainly think the .223 could win at a big match, but the shooter would need to be perfect behind the rifle and have a lot of luck to get fairly benign wind conditions and good squadding assignments. Otherwise, there are just too many factors going against the .223 when stacked up against a lot of very, very good shooters using a .308.

Rather than attempting to make the .223 work consistently at 1000 yd just to save a little powder, my suggestion would be to get two or three part-time jobs (in addition to your full-time work), so you can afford to buy 3 or 4 extra 8 lb jugs of your powder of choice at Gunbroker, which will likely cost you somewhere in the neighborhood of $5000. Alternatively, selling a kidney or lung would probably also be sufficient.

 

[Ringostar]

David, since you shoot open class. Try a 22-250!

 

[Warren Dean]

I have seen a local Phoenix shooter kick some serious butt with a 223 a few years back. He was scary good with it. But he gave up on it. The physics are such that regardless of what JBM or some ballistic program says, at 1K that little bullet is going to get beat up by the wind. On a flat field and a sunny day with not much wind, it can hold its own with the 308s but like the 17 HMR, it really, really doesn't like wind.

 

[jrh84]

I've started shooting a .223 Palma rifle this year out to 1000, using N135 and 88 ELDs. I’ve not chronographed them, but my SD's at the target have been remarkable...like <10 fps remarkable, usually in the 5-8 fps range. I'm not sure I believe that they're actually that good, I think its an E-target issue thats making it look better than it really is. That being said, they're generally holding x ring elevation (F-class 10 ring).
No case prep, N135, CCI 400 primers. Charging with an RCBS Chargemaster.

Not sure they'll ever run with a .308 F-TR gun for elevation, but these aren't normal times.

 

[davidjoe]

David, since you shoot open class. Try a 22-250!

I remember when Berger sold these 90 VLD’s in buckets of 1,500 with moly coating, and they never go bad.

^Ned recounting that he was able to snag the California 1000 yard state championship with these bullets has me very inspired to take them to a LR club match. Not because I can replicate that but because that means they are better than my calls, and of real interest to me even considering that the cartridge gap got bigger when 200’s became universal.

I haven’t been pointing these for informal plinking but I definitely am reminded that significant improvement is possible.

Boy, are their jackets delicate. This is actually very good for accuracy but I can see how one here and there could blow up. Hopefully not with moly. While I’m using Whidden’s pointer, his base with a small navel where its center is removed, (I suppose to clean up or countersink the small stem left when cutting the piece free after turning it on a lathe) actually lets this delicate jacket flow into it, so I’m using the Hoover base with its mirrored finish for the job. Also, Berger sure isn’t going to let me try to compress any more powder into the case, the unattractive forming of nose rings will end that quickly.

I managed with moly SmK 80’s to basically load Varget to the top of the case neck, 27.0 grains, compress in an 80, shoot it, and still have a tight primer pocket. That’s got to be well over 3,000 FPS. But can those work at 1,000, that’s something I don’t ever hear about.



I have a good amount of Varget, more than H1000 by far, even though there’s no Open round I can use it for. I also have a stash of 250 A-Tips and H4350 that ran a ~7 SD on the ShotMarker at 1,000. Between the low SD (when BR4’s were used) and the target frame’s velocity being very much higher than the 200’s, I really want to take that gun back. Looks like a lot of TR shooting for me for the time being.

I’m thinking that a calmer morning relay might favor the .223, with a switch to the .308 when the wind picks up. The .223 just sits there when fired, which bodes extremely well for dead calm accuracy, is just fun, and it feels like a violation of physics, or the rules, or lately, the cost to practice playing the game .

There’s also the SMK 95 and A-Tip 90 that I’ve been playing with. Until recently the 90 VLD only had the 90 SMK in the class but with a lower BC.

I have shot the 95’s once at 600, and they struck as high as the 90’s with a lower powder charge, but those 90’s weren’t tipped, nor were they at 25.0 grains, and these 90’s going forward will have both benefits.

 

[Ned Ludd]

The 88 ELDM is a very good bullet, but the jackets can be problematic, just like the 90 VLDs. In my hands, the 88 ELDM has even a slightly higher BC that the 90 VLDs in side-by-side comparisons using LabRadar velocity data. Unfortunately, the only rifle I have throated properly for them shreds jackets. I have recently re-visited using the SMK 95s, which gave pretty good results in that same rifle. If I were going to try to get the most out of either the 88 ELDM, 90 A-tip, or 95 SMK, I would consider using a 32" barrel throated from here to Alaska (maybe 0.250"-0.275" fb), and it would absolutely, positively have to be a 0.219" bore barrel. All my current .224" barrels are 0.218" bore. They work great when the twist rate is no faster than 7.0, but the barrel that has caused jacket issues in my hands is a 6.8-twist, and it's the only one throated long enough to really consider using with any of those 3 bullets. If someone were willing to set up a rifle specifically to shoot one of those three bullets, it wouldn't at all surprise me if there's still a little bit of performance left on the table as compared to the most commonly-used F-TR .223 Rem setups. I still don't think the .223 Rem will equal a good .308 Win setup with 200+ gr bullets on windier days, but it might just be possible to shrink the gap a little more than it currently is.

 

[Juppe12]

Reason that Lapua makes 222 and 7,62*39 is finnish markets. There is whole lot of Sako Vixens and others in 222. And for 7,62*39, finnish army usea that caliber and Lapua is number one supplier for defence forces.

 

[CaptainMal]

I shoot plates at 600 yards with a 223 just because I can hit them with 25 grs. of powder and 77 gr. bullets. Two fellows regularly compete in our monthly benchrest matches with bolt action 223's. Last month one won smallest group using a 90 gr. bullet in a 6.5" twist barrel.

223 at 600 can get the job done, make you smile and save components.

 

[ShootDots]

David, I have an observation that may be useful to you. I have shot many 7mms and currently shoot a 7mm Sherman. I use 180 gr bullets in it with velocities in the 2900f.p.s. range. I also shoot 2 .300WSMs that use 230 gr Hybrids. I have seen the 230s generate LESS vertical at 1000 than the 180 can begin to reach. I do not know how many points I have SAVED by NOT leaking out of the 10 ring due to vertical. If you run the "numbers" (ballistic tables) you will see that the 180s at 2900 are the same as the 230s at 2775. However, this does NOT tell the true story! The vertical dispersion is noticeably LESS with the 230s than the 180s>>>IN SPITE of what the "programs" state. Now extrapolate that from a 90gr .223 bullet to a 200gr .30 cal bullet and I would bet a SIZABLE SUM that the 200s will not lose nearly the points to vertical that the 90s do!

 

[davidjoe]

David, I have an observation that may be useful to you. I have shot many 7mms and currently shoot a 7mm Sherman. I use 180 gr bullets in it with velocities in the 2900f.p.s. range. I also shoot 2 .300WSMs that use 230 gr Hybrids. I have seen the 230s generate LESS vertical at 1000 than the 180 can begin to reach. I do not know how many points I have SAVED by NOT leaking out of the 10 ring due to vertical. If you run the "numbers" (ballistic tables) you will see that the 180s at 2900 are the same as the 230s at 2775. However, this does NOT tell the true story! The vertical dispersion is noticeably LESS with the 230s than the 180s>>>IN SPITE of what the "programs" state. Now extrapolate that from a 90gr .223 bullet to a 200gr .30 cal bullet and I would bet a SIZABLE SUM that the 200s will not lose nearly the points to vertical that the 90s do!

I can see vertical being a problem. It seems to me that a bullet slowing down significantly, with a pronounced arcing path to a 1,000, when that bullet hits a headwind pickup with much more than its “frontal area” exposed, really suffers vertical. For that matter it also flies a longer path, to be influenced by all wind. (The V delta of the 250 atip in a .308 between muzzle and 1,000 is the lowest I think possible in TR, by a large margin to maybe hold true in open as well, starting at 2,450 but ending faster than many open guns, and what positive effects if any that could imply for drift interests me).

Ben, your post raises a point I have noticed but not really addressed anywhere on here.

Have you guys noticed that on JBM, which means it’s probably true of all of them, only the BC and velocity bullet criteria has any effect on the trajectory table produced?

In other words, you can completely ignore caliber and weight and get the same results for trajectory, which stands to reason if the theory of a singular BC comparator across projectiles is correct. I literally inputted a .22 and .338 with varying weights to each, to test this, and it only gives consideration to the BC you have assigned.

Of course those criteria matter for things like retained energy, but that’s not particularly important to bullseye target shooting.

 

[ShootDots]

I can see vertical being a problem. It seems to me that a bullet slowing down significantly, with a pronounced arcing path to a 1,000, when that bullet hits a headwind pickup with much more than its “frontal area” exposed, really suffers vertical. For that matter it also flies a longer path, to be influenced by all wind. (The V delta of the 250 atip in a .308 between muzzle and 1,000 is the lowest I think possible in TR, by a large margin to maybe hold true in open as well, starting at 2,450 but ending faster than many open guns, and what positive effects if any that could imply for drift interests me).

Ben, your post raises a point I have noticed but not really addressed anywhere on here.

Have you guys noticed that on JBM, which means it’s probably true of all of them, only the BC and velocity bullet criteria has any effect on the trajectory table produced?

In other words, you can completely ignore caliber and weight and get the same results for trajectory, which stands to reason if the theory of a singular BC comparator across projectiles is correct. Of course those criteria matter for things like retained energy, but that’s not particularly important to bullseye target shooting.

You are exactly right David! I have long believed that there should be 2 b.c. charts. One strictly for trajectory and a second for wind deflection. I have been chastised for that thinking on here>>>>but R-E-A-L life experience has taught me that the singular number is not the WHOLE story! T-Rust me on this!! I believe that "momentum" plays a HUGE part in "slicing thru the wind"..

 

[sdean]

You are exactly right David! I have long believed that there should be 2 b.c. charts. One strictly for trajectory and a second for wind deflection. I have been chastised for that thinking on here>>>>but R-E-A-L life experience has taught me that the singular number is not the WHOLE story! T-Rust me on this!! I believe that "momentum" plays a HUGE part in "slicing thru the wind"..

Gravity and wind are way different things. To use the same number in a formula comparing the two doesn’t make sense to me.

 

[Rsadams]

Gravity is a constant , wind is not....

 

[jelenko]

The role that the ballistic coefficient plays in calculating trajectory is the force on the bullet from wind drag which determines the bullet's velocity, hence the time that gravity has to act on the bullet.

 

[Mark Walker in TX]

David - if you’re just looking for a case for F-O that you can use Varget in, the ole 6.5x47 Lapua shines with Varget.

 

[Sandstorm]

6.5x47 Lapua shines with Varget

I will most agree here...and add a 140 LRBT to top it off.

 

[davidjoe]

David - if you’re just looking for a case for F-O that you can use Varget in, the ole 6.5x47 Lapua shines with Varget.

I’m actually in talks this weekend with a friend about his 6.5x47 and also his .284 Shehane. I don’t know if I’ll end up with either or both of them, but the 6.5 has an EC Tuner that along with that cartridge, I’ve never tried.

I have lots of .284 components I should probably be focussing on, it’s just that these new high BC .22 and .308 bullets are very intriguing. I’ve readied 4 6.5 twist .22 barrels recently and a couple of 8 twist .308’s.

I have put my .284’s (and a good number of stockpiled new chambered barrels and other components) in a tough position to eagerly pick up and take to Bayou, as from above they shoot outside my saums, and now coming to believe recently that from below, there are viable .308/250 A-Tip loads that also shoot inside of them by a fair amount at 1,000, and just need practice and some refinement. Of course, it would have to be the case that the .284 is the round I’m most geared up to shoot through any shortage.

 

[Scrumbag]

I'd say go for a smaller 7mm? 284W / 280 Rem or the AI version?

.224 bullets get blown about quite a bit in my view