Irractic Overall Length need Help

[voldoc02]

I've noticed irractic Overall loaded length while loading for my 6 Dasher 12 twist
I have used both a Redding Comp. seater and a Wilson Arbor Press straight line seater.
Both exhibit same results
I am measuring to the ogive used an Acrorn Hex Nut.
Variations of .003-005" common. seems the points of the 87 gr VMax's may be bottomomg out in the cone
of the seating stem. advise. at witt's end
thanks a lot
Doc Stone

 

[457ciSBC]

I've noticed irractic Overall loaded length while loading for my 6 Dasher 12 twist
I have used both a Redding Comp. seater and a Wilson Arbor Press straight line seater.
Both exhibit same results
I am measuring to the ogive used an Acrorn Hex Nut.
Variations of .003-005" common. seems the points of the 87 gr VMax's may be bottomomg out in the cone
of the seating stem. advise. at witt's end
thanks a lot
Doc Stone

It’s the variance in the bullets themselves.

 

[voldoc02]

I think the Ballastic Plastic tips of the 87 gr VMax's are bottomomg out in the seater cone. I can see imprints left from the bullets inside the cones of both Dies (Wilson and Redding)
thinking of reaming out a little with Drill Bit.
I'm a Retired Dentist LOL

 

[BDman]

That'll work if the tip is bottoming out.

 

[K22]

That's amount of variance is not unusual for hunting grade bullets in my experience.

Even in the higher priced hunting bullets such as the Nosler BT's I've had variances of .002 to .004 between different lots. I haven't noticed any change in varmint grade accuracy for these variances.

I haven't shot "match" grade bullets in a long time so I'm not sure about the variances in these so maybe some match bullet shooters can chime in.

 

[voldoc02]

that's gonna use the
"Dreaded Drill" go figure lol

 

[358WCF]

The ultimate question is... What does the target look like?

 

[Idaho-Lefty]

1) Drill out the "Tip area" on your Seating stem, a little bit, larger.
2) Buy some Lapping Compound and put drilled out Stem, in drill Chuck and LAP a Bullet, to Stem.
3) Throw out, the Hornady's and,..
4) Buy some 87 grain Berger HVLD's or, 80 / 88 gr Flat Based Varmint / Match for your 12 Twist or, Sierra 80- 85's
5) Life's to short to shoot,.. inconsistent,.. Bullets !

 

[LCazador]

That hex nut comparator is a pretty poor measuring device. Also those bullets are going to be all over the place in base to ogive measurement and so it will also throw off your cartridge overall length base to ogive dimension or CBTO. Frankly if your on target results are being affected by all this you may not have the best load possible for your rifle. Usually on my good loads I can be .002-.003" off on bullet seating depth and my rifle will still 'stick' them. I use a barrel stub made with my chamber reamer for measuring CBTO and sorting bullets.

 

[voldoc02]

thanks for the "Good Info"
I want to stick to the 87 Gr VMax's as they are they
"Flippin' and Flyin' est" PDog Bullets I have ever used
w/o doubt

 

[Ccrider]

If your gun likes them, measure and sort them. I do this for one gun and after sorting, they shoot as well as any custom in a 10 twist 6br. I have. Easily aggs in the 1s at 100.

 

[Bill Norris]

It’s the variance in the bullets themselves.

I have seen that much variances in not only Hornady bullets but other brands as well.

 

[Idaho-Lefty]

thanks for the "Good Info"
I want to stick to the 87 Gr VMax's as they are they
"Flippin' and Flyin' est" PDog Bullets I have ever used
w/o doubt

YUP,. they WILL,.. "Flip em" !
BUT, can you HIT one, PAST, 300 Yards, REGULARLY ???
I'm testing, the 95 Berger Classic Hunters for, the LONG shots, on Sage Rats and PD's.
The 87gr. V-Maxes do NOT shoot, "consistently" for ME,.. 3/8" one Day, then, 3/4" the next, in my 7.5 twist, 6 XC bbl and for $20.00 a Box more of, our now, near WORTHLESS $$$'s,.. I'll spend, the Extra $$$'s and NOT bother to "sort" them ! Try some 300 - 400 Yard groups with those 87's to see IF, you "have", the accuracy you,. "need" !

 

[RegionRat]

@voldoc02 Try and use a little ink from a Sharpie or similar to coat a few sample bullets and see if you can see a complete pressure ring on the bullet ogive surface to verify you are not riding on the tips.

This isn’t easy, but with your background I’m thinking you can figure this out. A very deft touch and spin should show that the tool makes contact on the curvature of the ogive rather than the tip. It can pick up scratches and marks by being spun against the seater tool when hand held and the bullet axis is allowed to tip, but under fingertip forces you should also be able to tell if the tip is preventing surface contact as well.

Practice with a different seater and bullet if you are not sure at first.

The Wilson folks offer more than one seater stem in 6mm, which one do you have?
Have you tried a VLD bullet with that stem?

ETA: I have no VMax 6mm to measure, so like has been stated it may be worth a bullet only inspection to see if there is a big difference between where the stems push versus where your inspection tool seats.

 

[Straightshooter1]

I've noticed irractic Overall loaded length while loading for my 6 Dasher 12 twist
I have used both a Redding Comp. seater and a Wilson Arbor Press straight line seater.
Both exhibit same results
I am measuring to the ogive used an Acrorn Hex Nut.
Variations of .003-005" common. seems the points of the 87 gr VMax's may be bottomomg out in the cone
of the seating stem. advise. at witt's end
thanks a lot
Doc Stone

Jut to be clear, if I understand correctly, your measured variations are .003-005" for the BTO . . . not your COAL?

If your bullet is bottoming out on your seating stem, then yes, this variation very likely is the problem. If so, you should get a different seating stem like those made for the long skinny VLD bullets.

There could also be that much variation just in the BTO measurements and when I find that much variance, I'll sort them to groups within +/- .001 of each other. Also, when I sort I use a comparator with a diameter the is the same as my seating stem so that when I seat them, I get very consistent seating depths for the base of the bullet, which is what is more important to me than a consistent distance for the ojive's to the lands.

 

[457ciSBC]

@voldoc02 Try and use a little ink from a Sharpie or similar to coat a few sample bullets and see if you can see a complete pressure ring on the bullet ogive surface to verify you are not riding on the tips.

This isn’t easy, but with your background I’m thinking you can figure this out. A very deft touch and spin should show that the tool makes contact on the curvature of the ogive rather than the tip. It can pick up scratches and marks by being spun against the seater tool when hand held and the bullet axis is allowed to tip, but under fingertip forces you should also be able to tell if the tip is preventing surface contact as well.

Practice with a different seater and bullet if you are not sure at first.

The Wilson folks offer more than one seater stem in 6mm, which one do you have?
Have you tried a VLD bullet with that stem?

ETA: I have no VMax 6mm to measure, so like has been stated it may be worth a bullet only inspection to see if there is a big difference between where the stems push versus where your inspection tool seats.

I’ve never been a big fan of 87VM either

 

[timeout]

You're probably already on top of it but if your neck tension varies so will the seating depths.

 

[LCazador]

Jut to be clear, if I understand correctly, your measured variations are .003-005" for the BTO . . . not your COAL?

If your bullet is bottoming out on your seating stem, then yes, this variation very likely is the problem. If so, you should get a different seating stem like those made for the long skinny VLD bullets.

There could also be that much variation just in the BTO measurements and when I find that much variance, I'll sort them to groups within +/- .001 of each other. Also, when I sort I use a comparator with a diameter the is the same as my seating stem so that when I seat them, I get very consistent seating depths for the base of the bullet, which is what is more important to me than a consistent distance for the ojive's to the lands.

You can take the seating stem right out of the Wilson straight line seater and use it to measure BTO and CBTO. It would be better than that hex nut. A little ackward but works. Those Vmaxs are bit pointy like a VLD. Both are secant ogives and difficult to tune.

 

[voldoc02]

Thanks to all you "Heavy Hitters"
Lots of "Great Info" for this Ole Tooth Doctor to
Ponder upon
BTO is now being used
Lots more accurate measurement
thanks again
Doc