.223 AR15 upper for PRS shooting.

[Dave Marshall]

I’m thinking of building a .223 upper for PRS. I have a few questions that need answering though.

All the ammo needs to be magazine length. Has anyone ever shot the Berger 75VLD’s at magazine length with good results? I’d like to use something a little slicker than the 77SMK or 73 Berger.

Is there an existing chamber design that would be best for this? Wylde chambers are great, but anything from the magazine has to jump a mile.

I have a T2k all set up in 6xc for PRS, but the gas gun just seems like it might fun once in a while and it’s easier to load for.

Thanks

 

[eric32]

I run a 223rem for precision rifle matches, as long as you get get a healthy velocity from the gas gun, i am talking 2900+ from the highest BC bullet under 77grs then your in for a good time.

I am using the 75gr AMAX at 2990 fps and I can make good hits out to about 800 yards and see splash. but after that I read the wind and watch trace but I cant see any impacts on the targets when I do connect. i just got 75gr ELDMs the G7 is .235 which is the highest BC in its class. I can keep up with the 6mm BR/Dashers up to 600 yards after that they take over.

but honestly I would run your 6XC.

 

[mac86951]

Eric32 I'm guessing you're not running the 75Amax at AR mag lengths.

Honestly, best I've found for 2.260" is the berger 70VLD. Higher BC designs tend to not do well with 2.260" seating depth.

A regular 223 chamber resolves the jump. I'm at a comfortable 2950fps from 24" barrel using Varget. Not sure there's much to gain without beating up rifle and brass on a 24".

-Mac

 

[eric32]

i am not running at mag length, 2.450 ish give to take, but a VLD will jump( read bergers VLD test )

if your at 2950 with 70grs, i would run that.

 

[r bose]

For mag length I'm using a 77g nosler RDF. Highest BC mag length bullet their is. (that I know of) .454 G1 BC. I use 2000MR 26.6g powder with a CCI 450 primer. Using my XTC 20" service rifle 7 twist, 2750 FPS

Same load using a 26" Krieger 7 twist, AR space gun, 2910 FPS.

Both guns will shoot half min, 300 yd groups very consistently. If I shot PRS (never did but want to try) this is the load I'd use.

 

[eric32]

The 75gr ELDM .235 g7 and 77gr RDF .228 g7 are the two best bullets in the under 77gr class pick one that goes the fastest and shoots 1/2min.

dont get too wrapped up in the accuracy portion, you are shooting steel plates about 1.5 to 2 MOA in size. for TAC DIV speed with 1/2 MOA gun. ANY miss is on you. just recently shot at K&M with my 223rem its a 1/2 gun and all the misses where bad wind calls. I saw my trace for 80% of my shots all the way to the target.

 

[miningshawn]

I’m thinking of building a .223 upper for PRS. I have a few questions that need answering though.

All the ammo needs to be magazine length. Has anyone ever shot the Berger 75VLD’s at magazine length with good results? I’d like to use something a little slicker than the 77SMK or 73 Berger.

Is there an existing chamber design that would be best for this? Wylde chambers are great, but anything from the magazine has to jump a mile.

I have a T2k all set up in 6xc for PRS, but the gas gun just seems like it might fun once in a while and it’s easier to load for.

Thanks

AR's aren't accurate

"AR's aren't accurate" "223AI won't feed from a magazine" "Just sell it and get a (insert person's favorite brand here)..." DPMS Oracle stock uppper, lower, and bolt. $459.00 McGowen SS 1:8 .223AI. $328.00 TacFire forend. $47.25 Magpul fixed stock. $54.32 Hogue grip. $19.95 BCM oversized...

forum.accurateshooter.com

 

[Rob01]

Dave I would rethink the AR15 for Tac unless you just want to have fun. You won't get good velocity with the heavier bullets and will be fitting accuracy and mag length. If you plan to go on then look at the 73 ELD-M. It's made to fit in AR mags and feed. Another would be the Hornady 75 BTHP. Lower BCs than the 75 ELD-M but they will work in AR mags.

 

[eric32]

Dave I would rethink the AR15 for Tac unless you just want to have fun. You won't get good velocity with the heavier bullets and will be fitting accuracy and mag length. If you plan to go on then look at the 73 ELD-M. It's made to fit in AR mags and feed. Another would be the Hornady 75 BTHP. Lower BCs than the 75 ELD-M but they will work in AR mags.

We still dont have specs for his build, if he has a 26" gas gun 2900 fps, its doable with the 75gr thru 77gr bullets we have been discussing.

 

[Rob01]

I guess but would still be handicapping himself over a bolt .223 in PRS matches.

 

[eric32]

i agree but the "heart wants, what the heart wants"

 

[jelenko]

i agree but the "heart wants, what the heart wants"

! Unless you're competing at the very top, elite levels, doing what you want to do can drive the commitment to work on skills that makes a big difference.

 

[Rob01]

Also sometimes people don’t realize things until they make a post and then pros and cons of decisions make them think about the decision to spend money.

 

[miningshawn]

! Unless you're competing at the very top, elite levels, doing what you want to do can drive the commitment to work on skills that makes a big difference.

I agree. My first PRS match was with a 30-06 - make that an 8lb, wooden stocked 30-06 with a 4-12 scope. I quickly switched away from that; but, I did go to a couple of matches with the .223AI. The only place that I felt at a handicap was beyond 800 yards.

Wind is wind is wind. If you aren't scoring long range hits with a super-slippery 6mm or a heavier 6.5mm then chances are good you will get more "fun" and less wallet drag from a .223AI. If you are doing well with the AI... You should be a superhero with a larger caliber.

Working up those skills with a gas gun in small caliber sounds like a fantastic idea unless you are expecting to win every match in your first year.

Edit: Love those 77gr OTM's. I am supersonic (at 5800 ft of elevation) out to 900 and they transition very well. I've had solid and repeatable hits at 1150.

 

[Rob01]

Only issue with 223AI is you are shooting in open against all those others. Shoot a straight .223 and at least you are with the Tac guys.

 

[Dave Marshall]

I’m just looking to have some silly fun with a .223 gas gun on steel. I have a 20” Service Rifle I could put a PRS capable scope on and bang away, but it’s really not up to shooting beyond 600. If I’m seriously competing, it’s going to be with my 6xc bolt gun. I’m not new to PRS or long range with AR15 based rifles.

My thought was something 24”-28” throated to shoot a 77gr. class bullets from the magazine. I’d probably run PRI magazines and possibly cut the front out of them for a little extra powder capacity in the case. I’m not grinding the magwell of the lower or barrel extension though.

Thanks for all the reply’s so far. Lots of good insights.

 

[eric32]

Then you got it boss, 26" is my vote.

 

[RegionRat]

Instead of the regular 77 SMK, consider running your numbers on the 77 TMK.

 

[SWF Shooter]

For PRS Gas Gun, the 77 grain limit is not in effect so bullets like the 85 RDF or 85 Barnes Burner are possible. I have run a modified mag (that holds only 10 rounds) and 80.5 Fullbores loaded to 2.35" at 2835 fps Varget or 2900-2920 fps H4895 or RL15. For Tactical Division with the 77 grain bullet weight limit I used to run 73 ELD at 2975 fps (G7 of .210 is tough to beat), or the 77 Lapua Scenar (G7 of .206, but $$), with 77TMK another option (G7 of .202), all at steel mag length of 2.295" or so. The 77RDF is a higher b/c, but it needs a COAL longer than mag length, but I had decent results at 2.35" with a modified mag. All velocities are in a 24" barrel. The 75 ELDs or 75 VLDs did not jump well from mag length, even in a short chambered true 223. 77 SMK are best inside 700 yards, as they really give up a lot of drift and energy past that to the options I listed.

 

[r bose]

For PRS Gas Gun, the 77 grain limit is not in effect so bullets like the 85 RDF or 85 Barnes Burner are possible. I have run a modified mag (that holds only 10 rounds) and 80.5 Fullbores loaded to 2.35" at 2835 fps Varget or 2900-2920 fps H4895 or RL15. For Tactical Division with the 77 grain bullet weight limit I used to run 73 ELD at 2975 fps (G7 of .210 is tough to beat), or the 77 Lapua Scenar (G7 of .206, but $$), with 77TMK another option (G7 of .202), all at steel mag length of 2.295" or so. The 77RDF is a higher b/c, but it needs a COAL longer than mag length, but I had decent results at 2.35" with a modified mag. All velocities are in a 24" barrel. The 75 ELDs or 75 VLDs did not jump well from mag length, even in a short chambered true 223. 77 SMK are best inside 700 yards, as they really give up a lot of drift and energy past that to the options I listed.

I've shot thousands of 77g RDFs at mag length in an unmodified magazine. Not a problem ever.