my question is this, how important is a chronograph for medium range capable ammunition? i want to develop a load for my 223, i do not own a chronograph. im looking for accurate loads to 500 yards to start. im shooting a tikka 223 1:8 stainless with a 22.5" sporter barrel. i understand keeping ES as low as possible for long range is important but how many of you guys develop loads without a chronny and why if you choose to or not to use one.
to chronny or not to chronny
- Thread starter Huntersuave
- Start date
I prefer a chrono myself. ES and SD are gonna come into play at the longer distance you stated..."500yds to start". One can do it without a chrono, I went several years without, and got by. However, after I purchased one and started learning how to use it, I have been able to more quickly see a potential good load and make it a fair amount better. You'll be able to see and record every change you make....good or bad...
Good luck and God speed
We use a lot of jargon and abbreviations. ES from the previous post is “extreme spread” of the velocity, and SD is standard deviation of the velocity. You need to know the velocity if you will use a ballistic solver to calculate your elevation adjustments for getting first round hits at different ranges, and also if you are using different loads such as 55 gr bullets some of the time, and 77 grain bullets at other times. Shooting at different elevations and temperatures also changes the amount of elevation you need to dial on your scope. No matter the elevation, temperature, or bullet weight, you always need a pretty accurate velocity if using a ballistic calculator. Using a chronometer will also help you learn how consistent your ammo is shooting. It’s harder to shoot precisely if your velocity variations are large (+/- 30 fps or more) vs small ( < 10-15 fps, which is what you want).
You didn’t mention whether your 223 is an AR platform or a bolt action. How you define “accurate load” may be a bit different for an AR vs a bolt action.
You didn’t mention whether your 223 is an AR platform or a bolt action. How you define “accurate load” may be a bit different for an AR vs a bolt action.
You can always back into your velocities by measuring drops. If you are comparing powder A vs powder B, one might be giving you 50-100 fps more, at similar pressure, a chrony is sure handy then...
mensajd
Quod Erat Demonstrandum
Since we have accurate, easy-to-set-up consumer chronographs now (e.g., Magnetospeed, Labradar), why wouldn't you get one? You need accurate velocity and BC numbers for your ballistic solver to provide you with useful results. If you have a good chronograph, you have additional, accurate data to feed into your solver. In principle, you could try to back into V0 numbers by using BC and measured drops, but if you don't know the error bars around your published BC numbers, then you may be chasing your tail. Garbage in, garbage out...
Tikka t3 bolt gun
Thanks for your input, it's not that I choose not to buy one, or don't think I need it for better results. I've spent so much this year on reloading components, tools and another rifle I think I need to wait a bit before I make more purchases in the habit (er hobby) of anything firearms.
With the price of reloading components today. I would not attempt to do load development with out one.
In todays reloading world, a Chronograph is a very valuable piece of equipment. Choose your chrono wisely.
Every bullet has to count when your serious about doing load development. When, 1000 primers on the net goes for $350.00 a thousand, it makes the Labradar look cheap and affordable. I take mine with me every time we go to the range and shoot, just to make sure that the numbers are consistent.,,,,,
I hope it works out for you,, Keep us posted.
You can craft loads for about any single distance by ladder testing at that distance. Once you start talking about several, chronographing likely will become more critical. Shoot 300 to 1000 like we do in Australia and it's either a load per range or once that can be a darn good compromise over the whole lot.
Jager
Gold $$ Contributor
Everything we do in handloading has to do with making the cartridge in our hand exactly, precisely the same as the one before it, and the one after it, in the loading block.
A good chronograph tells you how well you succeeded. It utterly changes the game.
Beyond that, married to software like QuickLoad, a chronograph gives you the first real insight into the chamber pressures you're running. Sure, we've always estimated velocities based upon data in our load manuals, and mentally figured our pressures based on that. But a good chronograph gives you truth.
Load development with a chronograph is a much faster, far more refined process. I can no more imagine developing loads without a chronograph than I can without putting groups on paper.
Loading the Berger 115 gr
A good chronograph tells you how well you succeeded. It utterly changes the game.
Beyond that, married to software like QuickLoad, a chronograph gives you the first real insight into the chamber pressures you're running. Sure, we've always estimated velocities based upon data in our load manuals, and mentally figured our pressures based on that. But a good chronograph gives you truth.
Load development with a chronograph is a much faster, far more refined process. I can no more imagine developing loads without a chronograph than I can without putting groups on paper.
Loading the Berger 115 gr
NorCalMikie
Gold $$ Contributor
My Chrony hasn't been out of the box in probably 15 to 20 years.
All my 5 shot groups can be covered with a dime so I don't care how fast they're going. YMMV.
And I'll add, got a shooting buddy that kept VERY ACCURATE RECORD of every shot he made thru each of his rifles. Typical bug hole shooter.
The only difference between him and me? While he's keeping notes, I've already burned off 50 rounds and reaching for more. Still love that Man!!
You want a Chrony? Get one. You want a bore scope? Get one. To each his own.
Good thing we don't all think the same. The shooting goodie sellers would go broke.
All my 5 shot groups can be covered with a dime so I don't care how fast they're going. YMMV.
And I'll add, got a shooting buddy that kept VERY ACCURATE RECORD of every shot he made thru each of his rifles. Typical bug hole shooter.
The only difference between him and me? While he's keeping notes, I've already burned off 50 rounds and reaching for more. Still love that Man!!
You want a Chrony? Get one. You want a bore scope? Get one. To each his own.
Good thing we don't all think the same. The shooting goodie sellers would go broke.
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Nearly every round I shoot goes over my chrono. I guess I just can't understand why I would turn down free data during my development. I do shoot several wildcats where no load data exists and I utilize QuickLoad for nearly every load.
But even on established commercial rounds haven't you noticed when you compare data in the various load manuals, how the starting load in one manual might be above the max load in another manual? I know you can't exactly equate velocity to pressure, but it is just another input to help you in your analysis.
shooterjon
Silver $$ Contributor
I Only Chrono AFTER I have a Final load ,Ya Know Best Of The Best load.The one I will be shooting competitively.
My chronograph comes into play as a load information source only - 1.average speed 2. ES. 3. Standard Deviation.
just my shootin technique,Kinda works for me after lots of reloading.
If you decide to buy a chronograph, give some thought to which type you choose. There are a lot of posts here on the advantages and disadvantages of the different types. I used the optical type chronograph for many years when that was the only choice and it was a pain to set up and use and occasionally gave erroneous data. Today we have better options. I have been using the Magnetospeed now for several years and it is much easier to use and more reliable.
Unless you are using a chronograph you are just "peeing in the dark". I have uses chromo for 55yrs in one form or other. I got my first one in early 70's. After about 5 different units (Past 1-Chronnny- Magaspeed- Lab Radar) the Chroney are a pain to set up at public range with other people shooting. The Labradar is too touchy. I uses my MagSpeed the most. I bought the high end one as that was all the had at the time but if I was doing it now I would go with the cheaper model as I don't need to down load to a computer. One of the most important thing to know in reloading you don't get something for nothing---speed =pressure and pressure = speed. Guns are like rear end every one is different. If you are loading a max load and getting 100fps more than the book than you are looking at a whole lot more pressure. PS: start low and work up.
A chronograph saves time.
Those numbers out of of a machine take the shooter out of the equation.
Those numbers out of of a machine take the shooter out of the equation.
I don't use a chronograph in load development, only the performance of group size on paper.
I do find the chronograph useful for developing more precise trajectories charts for varmint hunting. This can be approximated without a chronograph with ballistics software and obtain comparing 100 and 200 yard impact points on paper but I prefer a chronograph and using the known velocity input into the software.
I do find the chronograph useful for developing more precise trajectories charts for varmint hunting. This can be approximated without a chronograph with ballistics software and obtain comparing 100 and 200 yard impact points on paper but I prefer a chronograph and using the known velocity input into the software.
Once I acquired my LabRadar my load development increased exponentially. By taking my targets home, downloading the data on the SD card, I quickly eliminated lots of loads that were leading into a waste basket. It's nice to download the data, compare it to groups, and ES & SD and quickly know what is, and what isn't going to work. Even makes tweaking the loads to wring out everything the gun is capable.
Given the current costs of components, a good chrono is a money saver too.
Given the current costs of components, a good chrono is a money saver too.
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