300 Norma Improved 35 degree

[Alex Wheeler]

I have only tried the target hybrid as well. Its probably the best shooting 30 Berger makes next to the 210LVD in my experience. The OTM just has a little shorter nose on it to fit magazines better, and it honestly may even shoot better. Seems like the more aggressive a bullet gets in the chase for BC the touchier it gets to tune in general.

 

[tom]

Pressured up (actually not) the 250 A tip today. Made kind of a mess getting each ladder mixed, but we think we have it organized right since Leo was in the spotter. Will write some words on the target and post later.



Tom

 

[taylorw]

Had a chance to go out to 1000 today and test the Berger 220 LRHT. I swapped to 215M’s after doing that quick primer test a couple of weeks back. Had a cold front come through so some gusty winds but didn’t want to miss another opportunity. Made decent wind calls except for the 91.5 load.. I saw the flags raise as I was breaking the shot but couldn’t stop myself at that point. I feel confident it would have been in there with the other 2.. For reference, the orange dot is 3” so probably looking at around 1/2 moa for the 3 charge weights. I’ll cut these in half and test in between to see what groups best next time I’m out.

 

[taylorw]

This is a continuation of post #204.
The ladder posted above showed a window of 90.9-92.1 so I cut those in half and loaded 2 cases per charge weight at 90.9, 91.2, 91.5, 91.8, & 92.1. I left the seating at -0.020” off.
After 91.2, the strings started tightening up with each increase in charge weight and were close to overlapping but still shooting wider than I’d like to see. Knowing now, I wish that I’d ran one more step at 92.4, to see if it would have broke out of the node but I only had 11 cases left in my cycle of brass and honestly thought it would have been tighter on the lower portion of the node. Lol
I’ve seen this type of grouping before and usually seems that when it’s shooting wide like this, a faster powder tends to help? I have some N565 that I may try since it has more bulk than H1000.
Since I’m not sure what the next charge up would have done and seeing that 1 velocity number jumped up on the 92.1 load, I’ll probably just split the difference between 91.8-92.1 and run seating to see if the group narrow up & round out. I personally can’t shoot these light weight rifles off a squeeze bag and bipod with a 22X scope much better than mid 3’s so if I can hang around the ~4” mark with 3 shot groups, I’ll just stick with this combo as long as it repeats.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

3 things that I have seen cause horizontal (besides wind).
Cheek pressure or barrel torque
Powder
Seating depth

With heavy bullets and fast twists thers a lot of torque happening. Setup the rifle how you would shoot it and lightly twist the buttstock with 2 fingers. Id bet you see 1 moa of horizontal in the scope. It doesnt take much. So how you hold the rifle is critical. You cant shoot them too free.

Some powders shoot wide. RL33 is my #1 culprit. If your barrel likes it, then your good. But its the widest shooting stuff I have ever fought. Some powders shoot wide in some barrels its just a fact. In the next one they are gold.

The wrong seating depth will shoot horizontal. Sometimes a powder charge will too, but I really hate to see width. More so than vertical. I will usually change powders.

 

[rhovee]

Maybe I missed it, but I would try cci 250’s and repeat the steps. Almost all my rifles shoot them better than 215’s

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Id agree, I didnt notice that on the target. 250 primers work well with Bat HRs, H1000, and N570.

 

[taylorw]

Maybe I missed it, but I would try cci 250’s and repeat the steps. Almost all my rifles shoot them better than 215’s

Yeah, i think your right so I’m gonna swap back. This is the first barrel that I’ve loaded for that even comes close to tolerating 215’s and now I’m not so sure! Lol. Looking back at that very vague primer test (post#158) I probably should have stuck with the 250’s bcs of the overall shape of the group instead of the size. That 215’s group does look flattened out and that’s what I’m seeing at 1K with almost the same width and shape, just amplified.
I know that I can’t blame any of that on the conditions bcs it was one of the calmest mornings that I’ve seen in a long time. Flags didn’t even wiggle from 08:00-10:15. I also shot another rifle that morning at 1K and it ran a 3.3” 4 shot group so I felt that I was shooting to the best of my ability off of a bipod.
Alex does make a good point in his post above about barrel torque and I’m gonna play around with this some more. I started out with an atlas bipod while fire forming but couldn’t get it to lock down as well as the Harris but it’s is still torquing a little out of level so may tighten my hold up on the stock a little more to see how that works for me if messing with seating or swapping components doesn’t improve the width. Appreciate the advice!

 

[taylorw]

I’d also like to add that I’m not particularly proud of these results but i feel like it may be helpful to post all of my results (good & bad) to prevent newer shooters from getting frustrated when they don’t do as well with a new custom rifle, right out of the gate. All rifles take some work to consistently shoot small at distance! Lol.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Atlas CAL bipod instead of that Harris would help to improve the target results as well I’m sure.

 

[taylorw]

Atlas CAL bipod instead of that Harris would help to improve the target results as well I’m sure.

I have an Atlas CAL. Explain?

 

[taylorw]

I’ve decided to pause with N570 until my 230’s come in. I only ordered 1 box for testing since I wasn’t sure if this 24” barrel would get them up close to that 3K mark but it seems like the node is gonna be ~2980 so close enough. I didn’t want to fine tune with just 1 box that’s a different lot#..

Im gonna mess with the 215 hybrids and a faster powder so went out to my 294 yd spot after work this evening to pressure up N565. Ladder was tight and narrow but had some clustering that I’m not sure that I like to see. It did come into, and break out of the node, but kinda odd to see that many in one cluster. Had right to left, gusty winds at about 10 mph so could have contributed a little to the horizontal but all in all the string held up well. This powder is a little bulkier than H1000 so case fill wasn’t bad. I posted a pic below of the powder level at 89.0 grains.

Im gonna load up H1000 next and do the same test. I’ve had better luck with it shooting smaller, when testing between the 2 powders in 3 different cases. I’ll take the best looking one and work with it some.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I'd say that combo has potential.

 

[rhovee]

You hit pressure with N565 and 215's at 3100?

 

[taylorw]

You hit pressure with N565 and 215's at 3100?

Yeah, I actually had some bolt lift this time. I didn’t have any signs of pressure until 89.5. Got a medium lift and rotational ring but no ejector swipe. I stopped there since it had already broke out of the node. Seems like these big 30’s, with the slower powders, are about ~40 FPS per 1” of barrel. What did your velocity end up at with H1000 & 215 Bergers? Curious to know if the velocity increase is linear from 24”, 25”, & 26”.

 

[rhovee]

With 215’s in a 26” barrel I took them to 3200 before I got pressure with H1000. It was a Broughton, they are a little faster than usual.

 

[taylorw]

H1000 today... Everything was the same as with the N565 string. Conditions were almost identical also.
I took it up to a similar feel in bolt lift and it was within a 1/2 grain. Velocities were close also. IMO, 565 seems to give very little signs before hitting pressure but was very predictable all the way up until it did. H1000 is more of a build up over 1 or 2 cases.
I think I’m gonna try this one first since it was close to half as wide in the node.

 

[rhovee]

I found the same exact thing. N565 is a great substitute for H1000. My lots are .2 grains apart in speed and charge. Some say it give more speed. But i haven't seen it.

 

[Bodhisafa]

Looking to purchase a barrel for my 300 Norma improved. I live in Mississippi and want to stabilize 215/220 Berger hybrids.

What’s twist rate should I purchase ?

 

[Tucker65]

I use a 9 twist on mine and shoot the 215's. @ 3150 fps. I think a 10 twist would work also according to Berger's twist rate calculator.

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