Is Using Expansion Mandrels or Full Length Sizing Die with Bushings Better

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I dont mean to minimize the value of what anyone is doing..or not. Nor am I saying that expander mandrels give a more consistent tension, etc...or not.
But I will say that I think it's a case of measuring something that might matter more between our ears than on the target.
Regardless, if you believe it matters, then it does matter. Ultimately, I think measuring the target is much more conclusive and it's all that really matters, at the end of the day.
Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[Ned Ludd]

Any of these approaches can work just fine (i.e. bushing die or mandrel or both). If you're using both, either order can work (i.e. bushing die followed by mandrel, or mandrel followed by bushing die). I have used all of these approaches successfully. If you're getting runout from a Redding die, the first thing I would suggest is to get rid of the expander ball. If you're still getting runout, then call Redding directly. If you want to read in more detail about the use of expander mandrels with/without bushing dies, do a search. There have been several threads on this topic in the last few months.

 

[Uncle Ed]

Below on my RCBS and Redding dies I installed Forster expander and spindle assemblies to reduce neck runout.

RCBS .223 die expander on the left and the floating high mounted Forster expander on the right. The RCBS expander is raised as high as it will move. Some RCBS expanders can be raised as high as a Forster expander. If so all you need to do is add a rubber o-ring under the expander lock ring.

Below a Redding die fitted with a Forster expander. Why drag the much longer Redding expander through the neck. I can understand why reloaders do not like dragging a Redding expander through the case neck.

The Forster spindle was cut to fit for the proper height and a rubber o-ring was added to the lock nut.

 

[MFG_BOP]

how are you guys holding ordinary pin gauges (as mandrels) with?

 

[Ned Ludd]

how are you guys holding ordinary ping gauges (as mandrels) with?

All SINCLAIR INTERNATIONAL Products for Sale Online - 236 Products

Brownells has 236 SINCLAIR INTERNATIONAL products for Sale Up To 91% Off including Reloading, Tools & Cleaning, and Gear.

www.sinclairintl.com

Expander Die Body

21st Century Shooting, Reloading products, Reload, reloading ammo, 21st century, twenty first century shooting, shooting, expander die body, gun reloading, tools for reloading, front rest, f class, bench rest, short handle, arbor press, powder measure, bullet, bullet comparators, die base, shell...

www.xxicsi.com

http://www.xxicsi.com/caliber-specific-expander-mandrels.html

 

[Murray Brook]

how are you guys holding ordinary ping gauges (as mandrels) with?

I believe I read somewhere that some reloaders were using an Hornady press mounted bullet puller with proper collet to hold the pin gauges and expanding the necks.

 

[BoydAllen]

how are you guys holding ordinary ping gauges (as mandrels) with?

I have not used this, but it looks like the top of the heap to me. You can buy individual pins off of Amazon I believe....inexpensively, and then put a taper on one end.

Precise Neck Expansion with Gage Pin Die from Porter’s Precision « Daily Bulletin

bulletin.accurateshooter.com

 

[JimSC]

Jim, My concentricity gauge reads in .0005 res.(Neco), and I'm just getting a flicker under .0005 on case neck run out. With that method.

I am getting about the same results, less than .001 and most less than .0005. I just use my Lee Classic turret with normal dies, in fact my .260 Rems are seated with a .308 Forster die, my 30 Major using a Franklin Armory Universal seater. Pretty low tech but it is working for me. Also using the Sinclair Gen II holder with 21st Century mandrels. All my mandrels are sized to provide .003 - .004 neck tension for all calibers, again that is just my preference and it seem to work well

 

[FNSafari]

IMO a FL bushing sizing die. That way you can determine your neck tension (brass neck thickness x 2 + diameter of your bullet) and use a bushing that will give you the neck tension you want. For a magazine rifle maybe 5 thou of tension, for a competition rifle 2-3 thou. Experiment. This method works your case necks the minimum amount to get the tension you want.

 

[marchboom]

how are you guys holding ordinary ping gauges (as mandrels) with?

I use a Forster collet bullet puller that I mount on a single stage press. Works great.

 

[skeeljc]

how are you guys holding ordinary ping gauges (as mandrels) with?

Porter's Precision Products makes a collet die that works very well. The pin gauges are available from McMaster Carr.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Porter's Precision Products makes a collet die that works very well. The pin gauges are available from McMaster Carr.

Is that the one mentioned about 3 posts back, by Boyd Allen?

 

[skeeljc]

Is that the one mentioned about 3 posts back, by Boyd Allen?

Yes

 

[Mr.quick]

Three years ago Eric Cortina put out a video on this subject. Over the past year I have experimented with this method and have found it to work 100%. It's funny how that Forster FLS die with the top half of the die removed. (expander ball and top assembly) replaced my Redding body die, and my Forster Bushing bump die,( top half removed from it also) and Lee collect die.. All I do now is Anneal, FLS, and expand with my 21Century expanding mandrel. My over all bullet run out is less than .0005. If you have not tried this method, I suggest that you try it. I know, for me it goes against over 2 decades of reloading where fire formed cases were the best. For me I'm still using both methods until I acquire the other Mandrel kits I need for the rest of my arsenal. But I find that the Expanding method works best and a lot quicker and more consistent.. JM2C

This is why I follow Erik ,he just says what works for him ,and if it does work for him it works for me too. I do exactly what he say ,and I have yet to have an issue .

 

[Patriot007]

This is why I follow Erik ,he just says what works for him ,and if it does work for him it works for me too. I do exactly what he say ,and I have yet to have an issue .

Yes, Eric Cortina, F-Class John, and Bolt Action Reloading, are three youtubers that I follow exclusively.
It took me a while to come around and try some of the things that they are talking about. Because of my Reloading teachings on Fire formed cases, being the best route to go, for precision shooting.. My mind just did not want to accept that, the FLS die could do all that and not over work my brass. If,, it is set up correctly to bump the shoulder back .0020 and shrink the neck down also.,, Well needless to say, It put the Redding body die, Forster Bushing Bump die, and the lee Collet die out of a job and eliminated 3 steps in my case prep process. Win, Win,

 

[Mr.quick]

Full length size ,all day everyday , with a .020 shoulder bump

 

[DocDoc]

Mr.quick 0.002? 0.020 would soon give case separation.

 

[Patriot007]

Mr.quick 0.002? 0.020 would soon give case separation.

0.020 would really be devastating. I think he just forgot to add an extra zero before his two.
(0.0020) I see a lot of that on the forums. I just give them the benefit of the doubt. The easiest way to remember it is to always use the 0.0000 format. But,, That's just me, and I do make that mistake every now and then, myself. LOL.

 

[marchboom]

You guys are really hard on another handloader. What's in a few zeros? A zero is nothing. Has no value.

Oh, wait, my last statement doesn't apply in handloading, does it? A zero in the wrong place can get very interesting...and expensive.

Never mind.

 

[Mr.quick]

0.020 would really be devastating. I think he just forgot to add an extra zero before his two.
(0.0020) I see a lot of that on the forums. I just give them the benefit of the doubt. The easiest way to remember it is to always use the 0.0000 format. But,, That's just me, and I do make that mistake every now and then, myself. LOL.

oppppps i ran out of 0's