Flame Annealing vs AMP
- Thread starter rijndael
- Start date
Poor Shot 65
Silver $$ Contributor
I don’t think that using an AMP will give you better groups. It is just more convenient to use and safer. Also it should be more consistent when compared to using a flame
rijndael
Silver $$ Contributor
Do you have data which shows the resulting hardness is more consistent with an AMP than with a flame system?
Preacher
Gold $$ Contributor
With small tanks loosing pressure as it goes on and on it would only make sense the AMP would be more consistent wouldn't it ??
rijndael
Silver $$ Contributor
I've seen their data on unannealed vs AMP, but not flame vs AMP.
It's all about consistency. If you can rig a flame unit combined with experience/skill to get consistent results, it should be as good as the AMP unit. But with the AMP you just dial it in and go, so to speak, so it takes the skill part out. A lot of people prefer that approach.
rijndael
Silver $$ Contributor
Even with pressure loss, if bottle pressure > regulator pressure, does it matter?
I started using an AMP last year and with a little talking to others that also use AMP's and with checking my brass to see what they looked like after each firing I was able to come up with one conclusion! That you need to play with the numbers a little to get exactly what you are looking for. And my problem was blow by on the neck going down the shoulder. That always gave my low shots at 1000 yards. Hope this makes scents, just because the brass is all the same Lot# doesn't mean there all the same. So you may need to play.
Joe Salt
Joe Salt
They have regulators.
Just about everything in life has a point of diminishing returns, I really don't think precision shooting is any different. Three years ago when I bought an Annealeeze I could not differentiate the fliers caused by my shooting errors and ones caused by my ammo/rifle. My scores were mediocre and I was in the bottom 50% at matches whether the cases were annealed or not. What I really needed was range time and lots and lots of practice
Thousands of rounds down range and a few barrels burned out later my scores have improved to the point where the other shooters ask me what I had changed and I had not changed anything really. However I had plateaued on my scores and was looking for some pixie dust to get that last couple of points for my HM card so I started annealing again. While my overall groups have not gotten smaller on average, that uncalled flier on the edge of the 9 ring or out there in 8 ring land seems to have went away and my X count has increased somewhat. Time for more practice
I think the "danger' of the open flame annealing is highly exaggerated. When I am annealing there is no powder or primers on the bench. I stand right there the entire time I am running a batch just in case of any malfunction. To me that is just common sense, I don't need Mom or the government to tell me that. Anyone who keeps a 8 pound jug of powder next to a running annealer is subject to the Darwin effect. Life is hard, it's even harder if you do stupid things as Red Foxx used to say. Also never seen the flame waver a bit during a typical run of 100 cases but then like I said, I stand right there so if it does a simple tweak of the valve would correct it.
I figure if I have 1500 bucks that is burning a hole in my wallet and nothing better to spend it on I may get a AMP someday. But day that will be when my scores are consistent 198's and 199's and I am looking for some more pixie dust. Until then I will just turning that money into smoke and noise practicing
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JEFFPPC
Gold $$ Contributor
I think for 99.99 % of shooters, less time spent on this subject and more time spent on increasing wind reading skills and tuning properly would be many times more productive. Especially if you shoot any amount of competition. Of course it is winter, there is civic, so there I time to waste I guess.
rijndael
Silver $$ Contributor
I agree. I'm in a basement with 10,800 cubic feet of open space. CO from 20 minutes with a propane torch is of no concern to me. It's not next to anything flammable. Other than burning myself with the torch, which I can also do with hot brass, I'm not really seeing much risk.
You must remember AMP is selling them. Just my two cents Tommy Mc
Not perfect indeed! In steel, hardness is relatable to strength, but there is scant data for other metals. Not to mention the “coarseness” of the correlation to begin with.
But this also raises the issue of how does the case release the bullet? From pressure overcoming the grip? Expansion? And just how does 100 pounds of pull vs 150 pounds of pull affect the shot placement?
A lot more enters into the mix on bullet release like variation in lengths of the neck and wall thickness with no turns and neck clearance plus annealing....... jim
Preacher
Gold $$ Contributor
Not unless you like perfect.........
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