Howa 1500 action improvements

[DickE]

Have been working on a few Howa 1500's and Weatherby Vanguards, any tips for improvements on receivers? Trigger improvements I can handle. Metric threads ok on that. Tips and tricks is what I am looking for.

 

[mac86951]

Hmm thats a good question; not sure these actions need lots of "tricks." Would I build a BR rig from one? Probably not, but I'm going utility and the action seems great. I haven't heard too many need the following. Maybe do the standard checks, such as square the face, lap lugs; and you've got the metric threads covered; so a good inlet / bedding job should do it.

Otherwise I'm tagged in for other responses.

-Mac

 

[wwbrown]

I improve mine by shooting them. They are pretty good out of the box. I do install new barrels though.

 

[Will Henry]

I have seen Howas in which the bolt face was not square so re-cutting the boltface didn't hurt. I have also used the dovetailed insert "bumps" on the bolt to tighten up tolerances when the bolt is closed. One alteration I saw used on Sako actions (similar footprint) was to mill off the recoil lug and install a Remington style lug. The guy who did this felt it was better to have the front screw behind the lug rather than into it. His rifles shot very well but so did a lot of others which were unaltered. WH

 

[DGP4]

I have seen Howas in which the bolt face was not square so re-cutting the boltface didn't hurt. I have also used the dovetailed insert "bumps" on the bolt to tighten up tolerances when the bolt is closed. One alteration I saw used on Sako actions (similar footprint) was to mill off the recoil lug and install a Remington style lug. The guy who did this felt it was better to have the front screw behind the lug rather than into it. His rifles shot very well but so did a lot of others which were unaltered. WH

This is correct. The Achille's heel of the action is that the front action screw goes through the recoil lug. Consequently, torque values are critical. You don't have to cut the lug off, just get a good torque wrench and play with it. I would recommend you start at 20 inch pounds and go up from there. On my heavy barrel Howa 1500 in .308 it really made a big difference.

 

[Laurie]

Consequently, torque values are critical. You don't have to cut the lug off, just get a good torque wrench and play with it. I would recommend you start at 20 inch pounds and go up from there.

Very interesting! I've wondered about this feature's effects.

 

[mike a]

This is correct. The Achille's heel of the action is that the front action screw goes through the recoil lug. Consequently, torque values are critical. You don't have to cut the lug off, just get a good torque wrench and play with it. I would recommend you start at 20 inch pounds and go up from there. On my heavy barrel Howa 1500 in .308 it really made a big difference.

Lug bedded of floating?

 

[DGP4]

Lug bedded of floating?

Supposedly, you don't want to bed the lug area as it is to remain slightly above the bottom of the lug cut out. As it was explained to me, you loosely tighten the action screws, tap the bottom of the stock against the floor to seat the lug against the lug cut out, then begin tightening the front action screw to your starting level, say 20 inch pounds. Set the rear action screw at a light level, say 15 inch pounds. Then take some shots and see what accuracy you get. Then continue tightening the FAS till your groups tighten up and don't start opening up again. For me that was around 34 inch pounds but all rifles will be different. Final step is to tighten down the rear action screw to around 20-25 inch pounds.

 

[mike a]

You guys are talking me into something.

 

[mac86951]

Supposedly, you don't want to bed the lug area as it is to remain slightly above the bottom of the lug cut out. As it was explained to me, you loosely tighten the action screws, tap the bottom of the stock against the floor to seat the lug against the lug cut out, then begin tightening the front action screw to your starting level, say 20 inch pounds. Set the rear action screw at a light level, say 15 inch pounds. Then take some shots and see what accuracy you get. Then continue tightening the FAS till your groups tighten up and don't start opening up again. For me that was around 34 inch pounds but all rifles will be different. Final step is to tighten down the rear action screw to around 20-25 inch pounds.

Hmm, I might be inclined to bed the action anyway. I hear great things bedding the stock on mausers. I actually cheated and went MDT chassis, and yes there's a torque minimum, but over that I don't see tuning effects from torques, but one data point doesn't make a study.

 

[DickE]

very interesting!

 

[DGP4]

Hmm, I might be inclined to bed the action anyway. I hear great things bedding the stock on mausers. I actually cheated and went MDT chassis, and yes there's a torque minimum, but over that I don't see tuning effects from torques, but one data point doesn't make a study.

I'm not saying to not bed the action, but if you do, fill the lug area with plumber's putty.

 

[msalm]

I saw a write up years ago of a European smith that made a thin round bushing that was captured between the barrel tenon and the action lugs. This ‘ring’ was a snug fit and essentially provided a bushing for the bolt as it was the proper thickness to snug the tolerance between the bolt lugs and the action. This was done along with blueprinting action and bolt (including truing outside of the lugs concentric with the bolt body).

I never tried it, but it seemed like it would work.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I saw a write up years ago of a European smith that made a thin round bushing that was captured between the barrel tenon and the action lugs. This ‘ring’ was a snug fit and essentially provided a bushing for the bolt as it was the proper thickness to snug the tolerance between the bolt lugs and the action. This was done along with blueprinting action and bolt (including truing outside of the lugs concentric with the bolt body).

I never tried it, but it seemed like it would work.

Whut? Can you explain further? I'm not getting a mental image that seems plausible. I'm slow.

 

[msalm]

Whut? Can you explain further? I'm not getting a mental image that seems plausible. I'm slow.

A ring of steel between barrel and action locking lugs (press fit in action from the front) that the bolt locking lugs ride with very little clearance, essentially bushing the bolt with a minimal clearance around the bolt lugs. There were pictures in the post that made it easier to explain.

 

[Mike Montgomery]

Will Henry,
With the recoil lug milled off was the action screw still usable? This seems like a good idea to me.
Thanks,
Mike

 

[Will Henry]

Will Henry,
With the recoil lug milled off was the action screw still usable? This seems like a good idea to me.
Thanks,
Mike

Yes, I'm almost certain he used the original screw hole.
Regarding the insert: The Gilkerson insert was a similar concept but using a nylon bushing, I believe. I remember reading about it in the mid eighties in Precision shooting. I probably still have the copy. I'll try to look it up.
The insert was fitted behind the receiver threads and ahead of the locking lug seat. The idea was to support and align the front of the bolt. I have always intended to try it but never have gotten around to it. The way I figure it, if the rear of the bolt is centered and supported by the bumps and the lugs ar making contact, the bolt cannot be misaligned. So, I just concern myself with the rear. WH

 

[DickE]

Could you not just cut the barrel recess to a tighter tolerance and get the same affect?

 

[Will Henry]

On those actions which feature a counter bored barrel, yes. I used to cut Remingtons very close and lap the bolt nose in. Later, I started cutting the counter-bore with .005" clearance and using a teflon o-ring to align the front of the bolt. Later yet, I just started cutting with .005" clearance and leaving it at that. Why? Because it didn't appear to make any difference! WH

 

[DickE]

Did the .005 clearance counterbore improve accuracy? I am here to learn.